Religious Trauma Syndrome
- Thread starter One
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One
Banned
RTS is very real, not just a bunch of mystical hype. I’ve had personal experience with it and have seen what *toxic beliefs* can do to destroy people‘s lives and minds. It’s very widespread! It’s time for conservative Christians and right wing fundamentalists to realize it!!! Liberal Christianity is on the rise, and “old school” is on the decline.
It’s *adapt or die*,… or, be cut off of the theological vine and cast down into the unquenchable refining fire of God’s eternal Love. You will *rise again* pure and clean,... out of the ashes and be grafted back into the vine... this is for sure.
Victimizing the victim further, is never a good call.
Peace.
It’s *adapt or die*,… or, be cut off of the theological vine and cast down into the unquenchable refining fire of God’s eternal Love. You will *rise again* pure and clean,... out of the ashes and be grafted back into the vine... this is for sure.
Victimizing the victim further, is never a good call.
Peace.
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Dakota Dogman
Member
One, being the new kid on the block here I have been very reluctant to respond to any of your posts... but I guess it is about time that I jump in... hopefully with grace and love but also with a fair sense of justice which is every bit as fully an attribute of God's as is love.
You are just flat wrong on your assessment of the church in America let alone world wide, so wrong it appears that you aren't even looking. When you look across the "Christian" landscape in the USA the "liberal Christian" churches are in trouble (assuming that you are using the same definitions for Conservative & Liberal). At 1 point the Methodist church in the USA was closing something like 3-5 churches a WEEK! The churches that are excelling by and large are not "main-line". Conservative Christianity, with an emphasis on Jesus as the only way to heaven is expanding... illus: Willow Creek & Saddleback. (Yes there are exceptions, like the happening Methodist church in Meridian ID). IF you want to "Sell" Christianity it has more to do with the Sunday AM package; rocking worship band, preacher with his shirt untucked, etc. Again, it has nothing to do with the particulars of theology. NOBODY asks the preacher about theology any more.
Our little town here, or the last town I ministered in, either one exemplifies this. The AOG church, my church, or the other Conservative church, they are all doing well. (In our community the 2 churches that are flurishing are of all things BAPTISTS! :34
The UCC, Anglican, Methodist, & 2 styles of Lutheran churches are struggling. The interesting shift we are actually seeing in churches has nothing to do with the shingle on the outside, people just don't care anymore. They are not going to attend a church because they are "Methodist" or "Baptist". They are going to go where they can sense God is at work. The hallmark of the Liberal movement basically denies this premise.
You mention "toxic beliefs" in connection with Conservative Christians. In my last church my "conservative Christian" preaching built a congregation that Toby Keith would have been proud of... "I love this Bar"... had nothing on us! We had 3 hard core motorcycle gangs represented, a professional hitch-hiker, women who worked the night, connections to the Mexican drug guys, Italian mafia, fighters, drunks, druggies... the whole 9 yards. There were guys in my church who literally would have been willing to beat you up and leave you dead in an alley for such talk about me... he he he... we were a funny bunch!
The reason some people are 'against the Conservative Christian church' is a rejection of the values that it maintains. People do not want to be told that what they are doing is wrong (ie. Sin). They want to believe everything is okay with God, that because He is a God of love He would never tell anyone not to do something they want to do. However as the Creator God who knows people inside & out, He knows what is good for people & what is not; what will help & what will hurt. He gives rules because He loves, just as you will one day for beautiful little Ben Goo. There have always been people who reject the idea that God would say no, it is part of a rebellious heart.
The other interesting shift I am seeing is in the next generation, those 20-40 year olds. They are especially uninterested in arguing, fancy buildings or high faluting anything. What they want is real. Real people. Real Relationships. Real interaction with God. Forget the rocking worship band, 1 guy with a guitar will do. sit around in a chair & be honest from the heart. Others are returning to VERY traditional church, such as the Catholic service, finding something in the majesty of High Church worship.
I'm running out of time here... for the moment. Major Surgery on Wed. so I'll hopefully have some time later in the week to respond to some of your other posts.
God Bless,
You are just flat wrong on your assessment of the church in America let alone world wide, so wrong it appears that you aren't even looking. When you look across the "Christian" landscape in the USA the "liberal Christian" churches are in trouble (assuming that you are using the same definitions for Conservative & Liberal). At 1 point the Methodist church in the USA was closing something like 3-5 churches a WEEK! The churches that are excelling by and large are not "main-line". Conservative Christianity, with an emphasis on Jesus as the only way to heaven is expanding... illus: Willow Creek & Saddleback. (Yes there are exceptions, like the happening Methodist church in Meridian ID). IF you want to "Sell" Christianity it has more to do with the Sunday AM package; rocking worship band, preacher with his shirt untucked, etc. Again, it has nothing to do with the particulars of theology. NOBODY asks the preacher about theology any more.
Our little town here, or the last town I ministered in, either one exemplifies this. The AOG church, my church, or the other Conservative church, they are all doing well. (In our community the 2 churches that are flurishing are of all things BAPTISTS! :34
The UCC, Anglican, Methodist, & 2 styles of Lutheran churches are struggling. The interesting shift we are actually seeing in churches has nothing to do with the shingle on the outside, people just don't care anymore. They are not going to attend a church because they are "Methodist" or "Baptist". They are going to go where they can sense God is at work. The hallmark of the Liberal movement basically denies this premise. You mention "toxic beliefs" in connection with Conservative Christians. In my last church my "conservative Christian" preaching built a congregation that Toby Keith would have been proud of... "I love this Bar"... had nothing on us! We had 3 hard core motorcycle gangs represented, a professional hitch-hiker, women who worked the night, connections to the Mexican drug guys, Italian mafia, fighters, drunks, druggies... the whole 9 yards. There were guys in my church who literally would have been willing to beat you up and leave you dead in an alley for such talk about me... he he he... we were a funny bunch!
The reason some people are 'against the Conservative Christian church' is a rejection of the values that it maintains. People do not want to be told that what they are doing is wrong (ie. Sin). They want to believe everything is okay with God, that because He is a God of love He would never tell anyone not to do something they want to do. However as the Creator God who knows people inside & out, He knows what is good for people & what is not; what will help & what will hurt. He gives rules because He loves, just as you will one day for beautiful little Ben Goo. There have always been people who reject the idea that God would say no, it is part of a rebellious heart.
The other interesting shift I am seeing is in the next generation, those 20-40 year olds. They are especially uninterested in arguing, fancy buildings or high faluting anything. What they want is real. Real people. Real Relationships. Real interaction with God. Forget the rocking worship band, 1 guy with a guitar will do. sit around in a chair & be honest from the heart. Others are returning to VERY traditional church, such as the Catholic service, finding something in the majesty of High Church worship.
I'm running out of time here... for the moment. Major Surgery on Wed. so I'll hopefully have some time later in the week to respond to some of your other posts.
God Bless,
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
Dakota, I agree with you 100%.
J. Doyle
Dealer - Purveyor
Dakota Dogman's post illustrates something missed by so many.....even true Christians.
"Lutheran", "Methodist", "Baptist", "Wesleyan" "Buddhist" "Hindu" "Muslim" and the host of other titles associated with churches are not Scriptural words. They are MAN-MADE titles that accompany man-made doctrines and ideas......i.e...religion.
Christianity is not manmade. It is not a religion. It is about the person of Christ and His ministry and His work, from before the foundations of the earth unto eternity. His atoning work on the cross is at the very center of all things and His calling starts within a single heart and soul, with the individual. Where two or three are gathered in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit constitutes as much of a church (and often times, much more) as any huge corporate building with it's tens of thousands of members affiliated with some man-made title and religion. The Holy Spirit is there wherever people worship in spirit and in truth and as Dakota Dogman stated....because it's real and God is working.
"Lutheran", "Methodist", "Baptist", "Wesleyan" "Buddhist" "Hindu" "Muslim" and the host of other titles associated with churches are not Scriptural words. They are MAN-MADE titles that accompany man-made doctrines and ideas......i.e...religion.
Christianity is not manmade. It is not a religion. It is about the person of Christ and His ministry and His work, from before the foundations of the earth unto eternity. His atoning work on the cross is at the very center of all things and His calling starts within a single heart and soul, with the individual. Where two or three are gathered in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit constitutes as much of a church (and often times, much more) as any huge corporate building with it's tens of thousands of members affiliated with some man-made title and religion. The Holy Spirit is there wherever people worship in spirit and in truth and as Dakota Dogman stated....because it's real and God is working.
Wayne Bensinger
Well-Known Member
All kidding aside guys, let's build some knives ok, thanks.
Wayne
Wayne
J. Doyle
Dealer - Purveyor
Tai, it would be awesome if you could focus on an actual conversation, answer direct questions, and have a real back-and-forth-discussion....especially in threads YOU start.
You have shown that you repeatedly ignore direct questions, redirect focus and answer with vague and ambiguous replies. That is why most think of you as a pot stirrer and very frustrating to talk with.
You have shown that you repeatedly ignore direct questions, redirect focus and answer with vague and ambiguous replies. That is why most think of you as a pot stirrer and very frustrating to talk with.
Wayne Bensinger
Well-Known Member
Oh boy here we go!!
Dakota Dogman
Member
Wayne, I respect this opinion more than you can imagine. In the only other forum I bother with they have a strict NO RELIGION NO POLITICS policy that I adhere to fully.
That said, this is supposed to be a Christian area / sub-forum where we are free to discuss the Christian faith. I will not force my faith into the "Steel" or "Sheaths" areas. Here I guess I feel like we have been given the freedom to express our faith. And when someone wants to come into the area that has been designed & designated for us to do so, and wishes to run down or dis my personal beliefs and faith with insults; well I reserve the right to defend or correct obvious errors. This is not simply a matter of interpretation on minor doctrines, but a misrepresentation of the realities of what is happening across the Christian faith.
For what it is worth, the Knife Dogs home seems to be mostly inhabited by makers at the moment, but the various sub-forums indicate that there was at least a desire at one point for those of us who are knife lovers, but come from other entry priorities to be involved. That is, it seemed like even if we are not really makers there was a place or two where we could be at home here.
God Bless,
Dakota Dogman
Member
Love is never wrong.
... but let's not mistake it for something else,... or something else for it.
That's about all I have say on this one.
The proof is in the pudding.
Love is not the only thing that defines God... in ANY religion, but esp. for the Christian. For Christians there are other very important attributes that are also celebrated, such as Holiness. To remove any of those attributes for personal comfort is to attempt to reduce God... a futile attempt. He is who He is; no matter what we think of Him. We can like it ... or not... it does not change who He is. He is a living being, not a concept or idea, and He is beyond our ability to define. We can reduce our perception of God, but we can not change who He has revealed Himself to be. When we reduce our perception of God, we are really only hindering our own growth & life. The more we recognize and celebrate Him in all of His facets the more beautiful He becomes. You see, as a living God, a real God who I can know & interact with... He works.
The refusal to recognize certain attributes ends up with a strange high-breed religion creation; in this case something that has left its roots so far as to be unrecognizable by its "parent". What you are offering is not a Christian faith, but an amalgamation of Bahi / Hinduism / Universal-ism with hints of an Judeo-Christian origin.
The belief that we have the right to define terms, such as "Love" in this case is very much a post-modern ideal. In the end it doesn't matter what English word you choose to use, or how you choose to define the word... the concepts we are discussing are from 2-4,000 years old, written in other languages & cultures. It is not ours to change them, but attempt to understand them as was originally intended. IF we accept the common definitions of the words used in the average American English translations we are close enough 95+% of the time. If instead someone insists on redefining English terms then it is only appropriate to return to the original Greek / Hebrew / Arabic terms for our base understanding. So if we want to "Not mistake it (love) for something else... or something else for it" than we need to KNOW what it is & what it has always been.
Yes, the proof is in the pudding, which is why I am unwilling to back down on this. I have found Something that is beyond any man made religion or hopeless feel good psychological talk. When you meet Someone as beautiful as I have, you can not help to want to introduce everybody you meet to the REAL deal.
God Bless,
J. Doyle
Dealer - Purveyor
And since the subject of accurately defining terms has come up, a brief sidebar, if I may:
The phrase is actually "The proof is in the PUTTING". It's not "The proof is in the PUDDING."
It has nothing to do with a creamy dessert. It means that the proof of something's effectiveness is in PUTTING it into practice.
I've been seeing this all over the forums lately and just wanted to clear that up.
Calvin Robinson
Moderator Christian Forum
John, Dakota, y'all keep it up. Isn't it wonderful how the truth always prevails?:biggrin:
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
And since the subject of accurately defining terms has come up, a brief sidebar, if I may:
The phrase is actually "The proof is in the PUTTING". It's not "The proof is in the PUDDING."
It has nothing to do with a creamy dessert. It means that the proof of something's effectiveness is in PUTTING it into practice.
I've been seeing this all over the forums lately and just wanted to clear that up.
See?? I always learn stuff on this site!
I always thought this quote came from two old ladies talking smack to each other about who was the best cook. "You can talk about how good you cook if you want, Linda, but the proof is in the pudding. I tasted your pudding, and you'll notice there's still a whole bowl left." And then Sharon walked out to the thunder of whispered cheers from all the ladies who had grown quite tired of Linda's crap.
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One
Banned
Chocolate pudding
1/2 cup white sugar
3 tablespoons unsweetened cocoa powder
1/4 cup cornstarch
1/8 teaspoon salt
2 3/4 cups milk
2 tablespoons butter, room temperature
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
In a saucepan, stir together sugar, cocoa, cornstarch and salt. Place over medium heat, and stir in milk. Bring to a boil, and cook, stirring constantly, until mixture thickens enough to coat the back of a metal spoon. Remove from heat, and stir in butter and vanilla. Let cool briefly, and serve warm, or chill in refrigerator until serving.
It's that easy.
1/2 cup white sugar
3 tablespoons unsweetened cocoa powder
1/4 cup cornstarch
1/8 teaspoon salt
2 3/4 cups milk
2 tablespoons butter, room temperature
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
In a saucepan, stir together sugar, cocoa, cornstarch and salt. Place over medium heat, and stir in milk. Bring to a boil, and cook, stirring constantly, until mixture thickens enough to coat the back of a metal spoon. Remove from heat, and stir in butter and vanilla. Let cool briefly, and serve warm, or chill in refrigerator until serving.
It's that easy.
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
Chocolate pudding
1/2 cup white sugar
3 tablespoons unsweetened cocoa powder
1/4 cup cornstarch
1/8 teaspoon salt
2 3/4 cups milk
2 tablespoons butter, room temperature
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
In a saucepan, stir together sugar, cocoa, cornstarch and salt. Place over medium heat, and stir in milk. Bring to a boil, and cook, stirring constantly, until mixture thickens enough to coat the back of a metal spoon. Remove from heat, and stir in butter and vanilla. Let cool briefly, and serve warm, or chill in refrigerator until serving.
It's that easy.
Awesome! Thank you!
J. Doyle
Dealer - Purveyor
Let me clarify myself. I'm condemning *toxic theology*, not the people that adhere to it,... because they are the victims. I believe in all people.
Ok....so bring it home here....what is your definition of toxic theology? Meaning your own personal definition....relevant to you...not a link to someone else's thoughts and ideas.
Can you give a specific example that's relevant to this thread? Or this forum? What sparked this thread?
I think we all can agree that we don't support toxic theology.....I sure don't. The differences may arise in our definitions of the words.
J. Doyle
Dealer - Purveyor
This was a good laugh this morning. Wonderfully played out....even down to having names for the characters. I applaud you.
One
Banned
John, I'd prefer not to and let you examine your own beliefs. If you are happy with them, then I'm happy.
However, If you read the articles, they should give you an idea of where I'm coming from and some specifics.
What works for one person, may not work for the other. Its' like my chocolate pudding recipe. It works for me, but I'm not sure how you will like it.
However, If you read the articles, they should give you an idea of where I'm coming from and some specifics.
What works for one person, may not work for the other. Its' like my chocolate pudding recipe. It works for me, but I'm not sure how you will like it.
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