Religious Trauma Syndrome

Status
Not open for further replies.

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
Let me clarify myself. I'm condemning *toxic theology*, not the people that adhere to it,... because they are the victims. I believe in all people. :)

The one constant in all of human history is toxic theology. Let's not forget that Christ's crucifixion was a direct result of his condemnation of toxic theology and the perversion of scripture. Not much has changed. One only need to turn on the TV to see today's version of the local Pharisee preaching the lie of Prosperity Doctrine. I recognize that some people do need to hear a good pep talk from time to time, but these glorified self-help motivational cheerleaders would have been beaten with a knotted cord and chased from the temple were Christ to enter those churches.

As a Catholic, I am sickened by Pope Francis and believe that he is lost. As a man, he has every right to be wrong. But as pope, he is the voice of the Catholic Church which demands his devotion and adherence to scripture. Being Pope does not mean he can twist the Word to fit his idea of being a social justice warrior. The Catholic Church has been infiltrated and taken over by "liberal" theology and the results have been devastating.

As Christians we have one guiding light, and that is the light of Jesus Christ through our relationship with him and through the Word. Any message that is counter to scripture is wrong, no matter how good it sounds or make us feel.
 

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
John, I'd prefer not to and let you examine your own beliefs. If you are happy with them, then I'm happy.

However, If you read the articles, they should give you an idea of where I'm coming from and some specifics.

What works for one person, may not work for the other. Its' like my chocolate pudding recipe. It works for me, but I'm not sure how you will like it. :)
I guess it begs the question then...."Why start the thread in the first place?"

I knew before I typed my questions to you that you would decline to answer directly, if you answered at all.

You've lived up to your pretty predictable pattern.....Post just enough to get the responses you want....add just a touch more fuel to the fire with replies shrouded in the fog of ambiguity...then bow out with a feigned sense of politeness and deep self reflection.

I often wonder why you post in the Christian sub-forum at all because , speaking bluntly, I've never seen you post anything that even remotely hints at Christianity but rather, this grand sense of Universalism..."Well, we all believe basically the same thing and as long as we have faith in humanity and love everyone, the world will be okay."

That's a sad perception of reality. I care about your eternal soul, Tai.....I've prayed for you before and will again.
 

One

Banned
Why start the thread?

Simple, for the people reading it that may be suffering from *religious trauma syndrome* or know someone that is.
 

One

Banned
... The reason I've made references to liberal Christianity, is because it may be a possible solution or alternative for some people suffering from RTS,... short of abandoning Christianity and/or God altogether. It might work for some people.

Not that it really matters but, I tend to lean pretty far to the left in most things, but understand it's not for everybody or to everybody's liking and that's O.K.. However, I also get frustrated with opposing views sometimes, if they come at me in an aggressive offensive way... or if that's the way I perceived it. Sorry if that's how it came across.
 
Last edited:

One

Banned
I try to follow what I believe to be the true teachings of the humble Jewish rabbi *Yeshua ben Yosef*, to the best of my understanding and abilities. In this way, I consider myself to be a true Christian and disciple.

If you don't agree with me and have another way, it wouldn't be Christian of me to judge you. :)

I don't consider anything I've said or done to be un-Christian.
 
Last edited:

One

Banned
For me, it's not so important who's right or who's wrong, who's good or who's bad, punishment or reward, that part is just a matter of perspective... It's about living our lives together *as individuals* in happiness, tolerance, peace, harmony and acceptance, as God intended it to be.

Surely this much we CAN do. :)

We are all God's Children!
 
Last edited:

Wayne Bensinger

Well-Known Member
That's cool man, I understand, I was just trying to simmer it down a bit, seemed like it might get a bit heated there.


wayne
 

One

Banned
Thanks for understanding Wayne. I appreciate it.

Now if I could just get someone to try my chocolate pudding recipe and see what they think. ;)
(Disclaimer: I stole it off the internet)
 
Last edited:

Drew Riley

Well-Known Member
I can't give as coherent of a post as I'd like, as it's pretty late and I must be up early for work in the morning, but maybe I'll come back to this when I have more time... at any rate:

I agree that much of the "mainstream" theology being "taught" in many pulpits can be (or in many cases very much is) on the toxic or errant side. There's any number of anecdotes that may be given to illustrate this, but I'll choose to leave that out for now.
At the end of the day, we all need to remember Acts 17:11 and take a very serious example from the Berean Jews who studies the scriptures (that were available to them mind you... I'm sure we have even less of an excuse, right?) CONTINUOUSLY (and eagerly) to check that what they were being taught was TRUE, and in accordance to God's word. Too many people suffer from what I've heard referred to as "Biblical Illiteracy". They think they know a general idea of what a certain scripture teaches, or was a specific passage is about, but haven't looked to far beyond the verse itself, or maybe even just what they've heard from somebody else. With the tools available to us today, there's absolutely no excuse not to know the Word of God forwards and backwards. Heck, you can study clear back to the original Hebrew, Greek and Latin if you so choose to spend the time and use the tools available.

Don't take your pastor's word, my word, or anybody's word for anything. Read the Bible. Study, wrestle, pray for wisdom, and meditate on it continually. I think if everybody did that, there'd be far less toxic theology passing through the pulpits, far less confusion, or even outright lies. We are promised to be given wisdom if we ask, are we not? Seek and ye shall find, knock and it will be opened, etc...

Jesus gave a command: Be not deceived. It's not a suggestion. God is the original and ultimate designer and his holy word is no exception. When taken as a whole, and poured over thoroughly and in proper context, there is much design and precision that emerges forth and gives us a very clear picture of who God is and what he would have for us, how we should live, worship him, treat others, teach, be taught, and on and on. It stands alone, living and active. It's as pertinent today as when the ink was originally drying on the parchments. ;)

All this "conservative vs liberal" Christianity, denominational, religious nonsense is just a bunch of noise if you want my opinion. Jesus was arguably the most anti-religious person to ever walk the earth. He was crucified for it for crying out loud. These ideas aren't new, and they're part of the very thing that Jesus taught about and against back some 2000 years ago.

Ah well, I'm sure there's much more I could ramble on about, but the main point is this: God's own inspired words are written in black and white (and sometimes red I suppose), and if we'd just pour over HIS words a little more often, a little more thoroughly, and a little more PRECISELY, I imagine there'd be just a little less confusion and toxicity being spread around.

[/Soapbox]
 

One

Banned
I don't disagree with Drew. However, *THE* bible doesn't exist, just older manuscripts and numerous translations. There is no *original* to refer back to, not one single original text written by the author that it is credited to. There is lots evidence that the translations and manuscripts we have, have been purposefully tampered with. So, I would add to Drew's statement that a thorough study of how a bible that you have in your hands came to be. The church was not created by the new testament, the new testament was created by the church.

Just for starters:

http://mysticson.blogspot.com/2009/03/rabbi-yeshua-ben-yosefs-new-testament.html
 
Last edited:

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
I don't disagree with Drew. However, *THE* bible doesn't exist, just older manuscripts and numerous translations. There is no *original* to refer back to, not one single original text written by the author that it is credited to. There is lots evidence that the translations and manuscripts we have, have been purposefully tampered with. So, I would add to Drew's statement that a thorough study of how a bible that you have in your hands came to be. The church was not created by the new testament, the new testament was created by the church.

http://mysticson.blogspot.com/2009/03/rabbi-yeshua-ben-yosefs-new-testament.html
This actually couldn't be much further from the truth. Saying that the church wrote the New Testament is equivalent of saying the Jews wrote the Old Testament. God authored the whole entire Book and inspired various authors to record various sections of it in His Divine and infinite wisdom, according to His purposes.

I have actually studied this subject quite a bit and it astounds me that one book, penned by some 44 or so writers over a period of 20 centuries, could produce such an accurate, consistent and harmonious account of the same single story. That fact alone, left entirely in human hands, would be a debacle. Certainly the all powerful, omnipotent and omnipresent Creator of all things can manage His Word over the course of human history and multiple translations.

Sadly enough, due to careless study and hasty translations, over the generations errors have been induced by human hands. And yet in spite of this, the fact remains that in all the translations of the Christian Bible, the total inaccuracies add up to less than 2% of the text and not one single inaccuracy affects the core fundamentals of the doctrines of Christ. Again, a fact that is absolutely astounding!

The Bible can be viewed like this:

It is ONE book that tells one story- God and the Person of Christ and His Work for man. It is a book of books. It begins from the very onset with God, not a philosophical debate for His existence....also a remarkable point.

From beginning to end, the Bible bears witness to one God. Wherever He speaks or acts there is consistency and zero contradiction. It tells the story of humankind and it's relation to that one God. It is a progressive unfolding of the Truth of God and the one theme and one consistent story could almost be divided like this:

Old Testament- this would be the preparation to pave the way to reveal the Person of Christ
The Gospels- the manifestation of the Person of Christ
The Acts of the Apostles- here is where the 'proof is in the putting' Putting Christ's teachings into effect and sending His Gospel out to all peoples and nations
The Epistles- the explanation of His Gospel and the Church and the Christian conduct
The Revelation- the consummation Here God consummates his purposes through and in the Person of Christ.

The Book tells the story of Him first, then creating a people, setting aside a chosen earthly people for Him (Israel) whom he would prepare to receive their Messiah but they, ultimately, through defiance, rebellion and disbelief, were TEMPORARILY (God will yet again choose Israel and take up their cause, not abandoning them forever, according to His promises) set aside to call and build His Church, which would preach His Gospel to all the peoples of the world, ultimately bringing the faithful sheep of both folds into their respective blessing.

No mere human mind and hand could pen such a story...let alone over 40 of them over a period of 20 centuries! To my mind, it takes FAR more effort to believe that humans could pull off such a story and it is MUCH more believable that one single All Powerful God is in control of all of this.
 
Last edited:

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
The New Testament was not created by the Church. The Council of Nicea was formed from disparate Christian churches of the world in 325 AD. The council spent several years compiling the original manuscripts and debating which of them would be left out of cannon. They didn't create anything. If anything, they were overly cautious in what NOT to to include. In fact, we have more source material today than they did because a lot of it was hidden and only discovered later. The Dead Sea Scrolls are an example. The book of Enoch. Jesus and the apostles quote Enoch several times, yet his book is not in the bible. Why not? Because they didn't have it at Nicea. It had been lost. And guess what? When it was found many centuries later, it matches exactly what Jesus and the apostles attributed to it. How could that be if a bunch of guys sat around writing stories? The council included everything they could verify. They made no attempt to fill gaps in the biblical record. That in itself speaks to the accuracy they strove for. Over the centuries, as more manuscripts have been found they corroborate the Bible rather than contradict it.

Both Testaments were compiled into what became the Bible. As to the New Testament, all of it was written between 10 and 50 years after the crucifixion. (New Age "scholars" will tell you this isn't the case, yet they can't prove anything they claim.) At any rate, the life of Christ was fairly recent history in the year 325 AD. In the year 2016, we don't need archeologists to tell us what happened during our American Revolution. It wasn't that long ago. The books of the New Testament were likewise to the scholars at Nicea. The New Testament was the easy part.

There is no literary example in human history which holds up as well as the Bible does. Not one. Not even close. Books were written individually, centuries apart, by people who could have no knowledge of each other- and the prophesies and accounts match amazingly well. Science and archeology try as they might to disprove, but always end up proving the Bible to be correct.

Are there some variances among accounts? Yes, in a few cases. If there weren't, the Bible would be a fake. Are there translation errors in the Bible? Sure, there are a couple. Thank God the Bible was not originally written in English. Our language is a tragedy of imprecision and bastardized definitions. This is one reason you can find flaws in the Bible. The flaw is in our language. English cannot convey the meanings exactly. It only gets worse trying to read the King James version if you don't have a grasp on how English was used at the time. Our language sucks and changes with the wind every few generations.
 
Last edited:

One

Banned
There were no *originals* to compile, just older manuscripts,... which were purposefully tampered with in translations and interpretations. There is some debate over what the true spiritual teachings of Yeshua ben Yosef were, but I think they are very clear. :)

Here's a few:

Love God/Love one another
Treat others as you would like to be treated
Don't judge others
Forgive others
Clean the inside of the vessel first
The Kingdom of God is within you
 
Last edited:

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
"purposefully tampered with"

I'm dying to know whose agenda you're following, whether you mean to or not. The New Testament is basically 4 synoptic Gospels and a bunch of letters from Paul. (plus Acts and John's Revelation)

Paul's letters are extremely simple and to the point. What is there to tamper with? The 4 gospels all say basically the same thing, tailored for different audiences. They are sermons, in effect.
 
Last edited:

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
I don't doubt your sincerity, Tai. And I'm not here to judge you. But a lot of what you are saying sounds an awful lot like an Elaine Pagels book.
 

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
Then the 'older manuscripts' are the 'originals'. The 'orginals' were penned by whatever writer God chose to inspire to record His word.
 

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
I agree with John's statements here, but I do want to expound just a bit on what he said regarding the 4 gospels. The 4 gospels are often thought of as repetitive, slightly inaccurate, varying in accounts (which they do to some degree, more on this below) and kind of say the same thing.

They are, however, definitely worthy of a more careful study as each are there for a particular purpose. Each is a stand alone book, completely capable of showcasing the full character of Christ. However, upon close examination, each is there to attest to a particular aspect of the nature and character of Christ.

Matthew portrays 'Christ the King'- the Son of Abraham and the Son of David
Mark portrays 'Christ the Servant'
Luke portrays 'Christ the Son of Man'- the Son of Adam, i.e. all mankind
John portrays 'Christ the Son of God'- and affirms and asserts His Deity.

All of these 4 character traits Christ absolutely is and those 4 things can be seen throughout from Genesis to the Revelation in God's providential and governmental dealings with mankind.

There are numerous keys to these traits portrayed in each of the gospels, that I don't wish to get into now for the sake of derailing this topic any further, but maybe a new thread of it's own someday would be appropriate.

But suffice for now to say that the 4 gospels, rather than all basically saying the same thing, tailored to different people, it may be more correct to say that each displays a certain character trait of Christ so that when all 4 taken together, give a complete picture of the nature of the Person of Christ.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top