Religious Trauma Syndrome

Status
Not open for further replies.

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
"Using a bible to judge others, is abuse." - Tai

Well, there's a tangent. (??) But it's your thread, so with that I'm out. It sounds to me like somebody really did you wrong somewhere along the way. Many of us share that. The thing to remember is that if we put our faith in people we will always be let down because they are only human. The Bible isn't the problem, people are. Whatever your grievance, or inner hurt, I pray you will find peace.
 
Last edited:

One

Banned
I think the same things that grieve me are the ones that grieve/grieved Yeshua, only it is/was more severe for Him,... probably a thousand or even a million times worse than the crucifixion.
 
Last edited:

One

Banned
I love Yeshua and will not separate him from His Teachings. We grieve together, but also share joy and peace beyond description or mindful understanding. :)
 
Last edited:

One

Banned
From the indwelling Holy Spirit. Is there any other way?... all I had to do was listen...

Learning to listen and *trusting* are the most important things. :)
 
Last edited:

One

Banned
Direct communion with the internal Holy Spirit, is the greatest gift and medicine of all. I try to spend at least a few minutes each day alone, without distractions or preconceived ideas, in this *listening state* and try to keep it with me throughout the day and/or night.

I desire to share it with others. There is nothing more precious to me in this life,... and no one, no thing, no theology, no religion, can take it away from me..
 
Last edited:

Drew Riley

Well-Known Member
The study of where/how we got our Bible is probably little "expansive" for this thread, but suffice to say, there have been many many people, with an alphabet soup of letters after their names, who have devoted their entire careers, if not lives, to researching and confirming the veracity of our modern day Bible to the oldest known manuscripts, which were in most cases based (I.e., essentially copied exactly) at the time they were written, on even older manuscripts.
In some cases, this may mean one or two still existing scrolls, in others, it's literally 1000s, each example having negligible differences if any.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't certain "problems" in some of our modern translations, but what issues do exist are well documented, and not typically of any major theological significance in and of itself.

What's nice about the design of God's word, however, is that no single verse, chapter, page, or even book, stands alone. It's a thoroughly integrated message system that supports itself from front to back.

Now, I'll also agree that an indwelling of the Holy Spirit is part and parcel to all of this; even absolutely crucial, but that shouldn't discount or even replace God's word. It didn't come about by accident; it was designed and imparted/breathed by his very Spirit!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
Clearly, Jesus Himself quoted and believed and still believes WRITTEN scripture:

[h=1]Matthew 5:17-18King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


[h=1]John 10:34-35King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
[SUP]35 [/SUP]If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;


[h=1]2 Timothy 3:15-17King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]15 [/SUP]And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


[h=1]2 Peter 1:19-21King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]19 [/SUP]We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


[h=1]Revelation 22:18-19King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


It's pretty abundantly clear that the Lord intended us to have and READ his WRITTEN words as a guide and perfect compliment to the indwelling Holy Spirit. And as such, He would not have His written word fall away into the incapable hands of man alone to go by the wayside. It was Divinely inspired and it was Divinely preserved and will be to the ends of the earth.
 

One

Banned
The true Living Word of God is already written on our hearts, *The Original*.. when it is found, there will be no mistaking.

... It's there on the inside and always has been. :)
 
Last edited:

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
Try as much as you want Tai...but you can't separate the Father from the Son(Word) from the Holy Spirit....the three are one and the same and to deny any one is to deny all three.

[h=1]1 John 2:22-23King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.



[h=1]John 1:1-2King James Version (KJV)[/h] 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.


[h=1]John 1:14King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


[h=1]1 John 5:6-8King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]6 [/SUP]This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
 

One

Banned
Couldn't we save the Trinity for another discussion?

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one

I don't believe that verse is in the oldest manuscripts, but I don't have a problem with a Trinity, it's just not true monotheism in my mind. The math is easy. The only way three can be one is as in one group of three, or one dozen, or one group of 100. Three does not equal one in numeric value. God does not make mistakes in simple arithmetic.

God manifests Himself in an infinite number of ways, that equal One. God is everything and everything is God = monotheism..

The Will, the Word and the Breath seem more proper to me... from a Jewish perspective, but I'm not really Jewish. Yeshua ben Yosef was.
 
Last edited:

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
It makes for pretty convenient 'easy believism' when you can pick and choose what you believe was/wasn't/should/shouldn't be included in the Bible, doesn't it? :)
 

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
Couldn't we save the Trinity for another discussion?
Not really.....Not when you deny the authority and authenticity of the scriptures.....here in the Christian forum, no less.


The Will, the Word and the Breath seem more proper to me... from a Jewish perspective, but I'm not really Jewish.
That's great to hear! Because Christ and His appostles in the New Testament spent their time trying to convert the Jews from their traditions and beliefs to Christianity. Because He/they knew the one true way to Heaven. :)
 
Last edited:

One

Banned
I claim no responsibility or control over what's in a bible and what isn't... I wasn't even there at the time.
 

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
I claim no responsibility or control over what's in a bible and what isn't... I wasn't even there at the time.
But you did take the authority or liberty to state that you didn't believe that the passage quoted below was in the original manuscripts. I was curious about that and how you would arrive at such a conclusion
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one

I don't believe that verse is in the oldest manuscripts, .....


I also wondered why you cared anyway, since you've stated in other threads that you don't believe [much] of the bible and stated that the new testament was 'purposefully tampered with' in this thread.
 
Last edited:

One

Banned
O.K. John. I don't think that verse is in line with Jewish tradition and because Yeshua was Jewish, I don't think he believes it either... Aside from that I have read some articles etc., that would seem to verify it was not in the oldest manuscripts... mostly Jewish though. I'm not Jewish, but I take their "voice" very seriously.

Growing up, all I ever knew about Jews came from Christians. I like to hear what they have to say, for themselves, from the inside.

Rabbi Tovia Singer has lots of information on the internet. You can search Google and Youtube to find out more.
https://outreachjudaism.org/

[video=youtube;ok9Esd9QX9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok9Esd9QX9E[/video]
 
Last edited:

Drew Riley

Well-Known Member
But you did take the authority or liberty to state that you didn't believe that the passage quoted below was in the original manuscripts. I was curious about that and how you would arrive at such a conclusion
To be fair, most translations (newer anyhow) do include a footnote that that verse is not found in the oldest manuscripts, but MAY have been added later.

HOWEVER (and this is a big HOWEVER), that verse is only one of countless examples that infer a holy trinity. Psalm 2, for example seems to be a conversation between Father, Son and Spirit. Heck, even in the beginning of Genesis: Let us make man in OUR image.

To give perhaps a more Jewish centered anecdote, let's go back to the very first Jew and his wife: Abram and Sarai, whose names were subsequently changed to AbrAHam and SarAH. God changed their names when he entered into covenant with them, but notice how they were both changed, adding what would be in the hebrew language similar to our letter "H", but more specifically meant as "breath" or even "Spirit". One might derive from this that God's Holy Spirit entered Abraham and Sarah at this time. Pretty cool huh?

Now this isn't particularly as black and white as the verse that may or may not have originally been, but it does lend itself heavily to the concept, or at least is not contradictory.

Then there are Jesus' own words, "Before Abraham was, I AM", or "I and my Father are ONE", "if you've seen me you've seen the Father", so on and so forth.
Anybody who doubts that Jesus may have actually said and believed these things need only look to the fact that he was crucified BECAUSE he said and believed these things.

Long story short, it really doesn't matter if that verse was originally in the text, or even inspired by God, as dozens of other verses tie into the same idea.

After all, how would Christ's crucifixion mean much of anything, if he wasn't 100% Almighty God, as well as man?
 

One

Banned
...you guys are going to drive me to drinking,... more!. ;) too many questions and not enough time. Let me sleep on it. I don't have all the answers all neat and tidy in my mind yet... I'm sure they are in here somewhere though... the seeds are in my heart... maybe they just need a little earth, water, sunshine and a little time. :)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top