Something to think about.

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GHEzell

Well-Known Member
There are many traditions of the church concerning hell that are not supported by scripture, leading many (including myself, I have no interest in traditions, only scriptural truth) to question the things that the church has traditionally taught concerning hell. Let our conclusions be from scripture, not what the preacher or some guy in a pointy hat says...;)

That said, scripture is clear. Any who do not believe in Jesus Christ will perish in the lake of fire. They will die in their sins. If one believes the scripture, this is the inevitable, unavoidable conclusion. Jesus had more to say about hell than anyone else.
 

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
I feel that the scriptures are pretty clear on this concept and I also feel that I'm being baited into an argument so I'll let one verse suffice:

Revelation 20:15

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

God's Word was divinely inspired and just the same it has been divinely protected and preserved. Of all the ancient manuscripts and different versions of the Bible from which our modern translations are derrived, there is about 1 1/2% of the total text where there ***MAY*** be some discrepancies. However, not one of them affects the fundamental doctrines of Christianity, one of which is eternal condemnation of unbelievers to the lake of fire, or hell.

There are many other verses in scripture that support this. I'll let you look them up. A word study of the bible on eternity, judgement, salvation and hell itself may be advisable for you.

I won't debate the existence of hell with you as anyone who reads and believes God's word can plainly see there is no argument.

Best of luck to you.
 

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
I see Brad was kind enough to list some of the other passages referring to hell for us. Many here have listed verses showing scriptural proof of the existence of hell and those who will spend eternity there. However, your statement quoted here below...

I have so much faith in Jesus, I believe everyone will go to heaven after they die.

The idea of anyone *literally* going to hell for eternity is just off the table for me.
...absolutely CANNOT be supported by scripture.
 

One

Banned
John 5:39-40 New International Version (NIV)

39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
 

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
John 5:39-40 New International Version (NIV)

39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
And this shows that hell isn't real how? It's not even really on topic, which I'm starting to become accustomed to with your posts. The scope of this passage is Jesus speaking to the Jews who were trying to accuse him of teaching on the sabbath then claiming equality with God. The verses you reference here show Jesus taking aim at the Jews and their traditions of studying religion as a show of piety and not really following what the scriptures say of Jesus and the true way to eternal salvation. It implies that they will miss the point of the testimony and mission of Jesus and miss eternal life in paradise but it does not say or imply that they won't spend eternity in the lake of fire.
 

Denny Eller

Well-Known Member
My 2 cents: More men, women and children have been and still are being killed in the name of religion than anyone can count. We have an instruction manual for living called the Bible. In it are the 10 laws God handed down to Moses. If we all lived by those simple laws, and thanked God for them, life would be filled with more joy and less sorrow. Sitting in a church doesn't make you a Christian just as sitting in a garage doesn't make you a car. But adhering to the "instruction manual" will. We all have the tools at hand - we just need to follow the directions on how to use them. The words therein are not directed towards any religion but rather to all mankind. Perhaps, someday, mankind will follow God's words and innocent people will stop dying.
 

Jeremiah Rostig

Well-Known Member
Any who do not believe in Jesus Christ will perish in the lake of fire.
Its always contains a threat and a blackmail, ...again, thats a Bad Religion which needs to create fear to make us believe... and without fear, Christianity wont survive....at least in Your conservative, fundamentalistic form
.....seems some of You guys need to believe in hell...assumed that there is proof that hell is not existing, You still would believe in Jesus?

You cannot wash away the proof of hundreds of years that hell hides in the Christianity itself.....need to be reminded of the crusades and the inquisitions, only to mention a few....?
I believe in Jesus and earth is a disc, and bad is below and good is above......allright, I got it...Amen!
 

Jeremiah Rostig

Well-Known Member
I have so much faith in Jesus, I believe everyone will go to heaven after they die.

The idea of anyone *literally* going to hell for eternity is just off the table for me.
Great words, Tai!....and for me no bible refering-quoting can lower its purity and value!
 

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
It's not a fear thing at all. If Christians believe and have faith in God as creator of all and Jesus and his redeeming work on the cross, then we owe Him everything. If he demands our faith and our belief to gain eternal salvation, that's what we must do. It then becomes His right to punish and judge those that reject Him.

Complete disbelief of God, Jesus, heaven and hell is one thing. That's not what is being questioned here.

Here it's people professing to believe in God and have a personal relationship with Jesus but rejecting at least parts of the scripture which is God's Holy word. It doesn't add up. If you believe in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit then it is necessary to believe also in God's Holy word also. To then deny that hell exists and is real and unrepentant sinners and unbelievers are sent there for eternity goes against what you are professing to believe in in the first place.

There is only ONE true God, Lord and Savior, King of Kings and Creator of all. Heaven is real and hell is just as real. EVERYONE'S soul lives forever. The only thing God left in man's hands is the personal choice to decide what he believes and where he spends eternity.
 

Jeremiah Rostig

Well-Known Member
It's not a fear thing at all. If Christians believe and have faith in God as creator of all and Jesus and his redeeming work on the cross, then we owe Him everything. If he demands our faith and our belief to gain eternal salvation, that's what we must do. It then becomes His right to punish and judge those that reject Him.

Complete disbelief of God, Jesus, heaven and hell is one thing. That's not what is being questioned here.

Here it's people professing to believe in God and have a personal relationship with Jesus but rejecting at least parts of the scripture which is God's Holy word. It doesn't add up. If you believe in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit then it is necessary to believe also in God's Holy word also. To then deny that hell exists and is real and unrepentant sinners and unbelievers are sent there for eternity goes against what you are professing to believe in in the first place.

There is only ONE true God, Lord and Savior, King of Kings and Creator of all. Heaven is real and hell is just as real. EVERYONE'S soul lives forever. The only thing God left in man's hands is the personal choice to decide what he believes and where he spends eternity.
John, I also start to get accustomed with some posts.... dog bites his own tail....
Any proofs except some "man written" scriptures?......
Tai shared a personal experience that is much more believable than refering to"scriptures".....
whatever being questioned here, it is like explaining the effect of alcohol to a person who never got drunk.He will know and understand when he drinks too much, but explaining the feeling is impossible.....
so why do You try to explain or speak for something You do not have a personal experience that could be taken as some kind of proof or respected as a personal experience(and if You have, please would You share that with us?)....it is only iun the words of other people, gone a long time ago, which You decide that this is the true word.
I forgot the "savages" who needed to be told of the "word of god"http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?39525-Bringing-them-something-they-already-have remember this?
....they will burn in hell because they do not know?...or they just cant get to heaven ?....where they being stored until the decision is made?.....or is there a sub-hell- purgatory.?....

here is an example how the "word of God" is made......
the purgatory was abolished by the German Pope named Reinhard Cardinal Marx Bishop of Munich-Freising a few years ago...he corrected Jesus(!) and abolishes Purgatory....(in my personal opinion he actually did a good thing.)
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2013/11/c-8-cardinal-advisor-1-cardinal-marx.html

He also confirmed some of the fear the church is spreading since ever, there You can have a deputy or so called representative of God and take a look how "Gods word" is being retired....
this is a fact and maybe in 500 years his words are added to the "scriptures"?....always try to sell us for stupid...!
always bending it to the own needs and politics and how it is useful.......makes me sick the whole thing!....it is only lies....it is obviously just bad.
You always can say I didnt get the point, that is not questioned here or whatever, fact is that it is and ever will be a blackmail.

No one cannot imagine the love and forgiveness of Jesus.
He never will close the doors of heaven for anybody.
That is, what Tai said.
He listens to You but You do not listen to him, or You refuse to give him the respect and space in his believe.
People will close the door, people do not forgive and are fast at hand to judge and punish, ...always knowing what God plans, does, wants.....executing the will of God, bringing the word of God,.....all that preaching on a soap box of violence....church and Christianity is organized crime since ever.....it is not about God, it is about wealth, politics and power.

Do You have some knowledge whats happening after death?...or at least any idea, fantasy or fear... ever made some near death experience?....anything that is half-believable more than some "referings"?

Maybe You are so free to try again, if You have some different argumentation than bible quoting and refering.
 
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Brad Lilly

Moderator and Awards Boss
Its always contains a threat and a blackmail, ...again, thats a Bad Religion which needs to create fear to make us believe... and without fear, Christianity wont survive....at least in Your conservative, fundamentalistic form
The thing is if you believe the Bible is the word of God you have to believe all of it. The second you ignore the parts you don't like you throw doubt into all of it. Not only that if you judge the Bible as what you like and throw out what you don't like you are setting your judgement above God himself. I don't understand all of the Bible or like everything that is in it, however I believe all of it. When you look in the Bible there are lots of references to hell and God's judgment on humanity. The Bible itself says "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" I like this analogy I loved my father as a boy (still do) but if I did something stupid I was scared of him. If fear of God is wisdom why should we fear him if there is not judgement?

The greatest mystery of the Bible is why Jesus came. I know 90% of the guys here make knives so this will mean something to them. Would you die for a knife you made? I would not. How about let your son die? As a parent of two daughters I would suffer many things for their sake. I can guarantee I have never made anything that I would value above my daughters. However God is different John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave his only son. Let that sink in for a bit, we can give God nothing that he needs, yet he still loves us.

The Bible is clear there is a hell a place of judgement and as Jesus said "I am the way, truth and light. No one goes to the father except through me"

To answer the part would I follow Jesus without the fear of hell? Yes because he first loved me. Not only that but nobody ever loved me to the point of allowing themselves to die on a cross for me.
 

One

Banned
If you take the whole bible literally,(by the letter), as I'm sure you do, then you must also take this literally.

Matthew 18:9

"And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell."

In all my years, I've never seen a Christian man pluck out his own eye for lusting after a woman other than his wife. It would be self mutilation and a sign of serious mental illness. The meaning of this verse must be of a deeper symbolic nature, not literal.
 

Brad Lilly

Moderator and Awards Boss
A question for a question if sinning means a eternity in hell what extreme should we go to so we can be safe? If Jesus is not enough what could save you? Can we work our way to heaven? How good would you have to be? How could we tell when we have done enough? If God himself allowed his son to die for us would you dare to make light of that in his presence? I'm forgiven that is the only thing I can cling to I have nothing else.
 

One

Banned
Another possible way to look at the bible, through a different "lens", if you will. Is that it is a story about our own spiritual journeys through life, which we touched on. I'm not saying that it isn't also historically correct, because I don't know. I wasn't there. It may be both. It is just a different way of looking at it.

So yes, through this lens it is about Jesus, but even more important it is story about you.
 
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One

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Galatians 5:13


For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don't use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love.
 
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One

Banned
Loving one another, doing good and avoiding Armageddon, is the narrow way!

... Let's not be a part of ushering it in!!!

... This is the favor Jesus is asking of us all. Stop the fighting and killing!!! It would be better to leave the churches, throw our holy books away and forsake our own salvation,.. than to see innocent people being killed and being tortured. It's within ourselves, our hearts, to stop it.

Forget punishment and reward.

Loving one another and doing good is reward enough, in and of itself.

"The Kingdom of Heaven is within you!" :)
 
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