Something to think about.

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You both have encouraged me as well. Thank you for speaking up.

I appreciate it. I really need you guys too!

... Hugs and prayers sent. :)
 
You can't get to heaven by following Jesus.

Ed


Just seeing this here at work this morning and hope to say more later but, knowing that we must accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of our live to inherit eternal life, we are instructed to 'follow Jesus'. Two instances come to mind in the book of John where Jesus said to a disciple "follow me". We are to follow Jesus in more than one way, He set examples for us all through his ministry for us to follow, water baptism,prayer,humility,relying on the WORD of God for all things from praying to defense against the enemy of our souls. Anyway, not enough time at the moment but this is an interesting thread and as some have offered their testimonies I want to add mine in along with a testimony concerning my climb up the ABS ladder to mastersmith but God had other plans.

Craig
 
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Just seeing this here at work this morning and hope to say more later but, knowing that we must accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of our live to inherit eternal life, we are instructed to 'follow Jesus'. Two instances come to mind in the book of John where Jesus said to a disciple "follow me". We are to follow Jesus in more than one way, He set examples for us all through his ministry for us to follow, water baptism,prayer,humility,relying on the WORD of God for all things from praying to defense against the enemy of our souls. Anyway, not enough time at the moment but this is an interesting thread and as some have offered their testimonies I want to add mine in along with a testimony concerning my climb up the ABS ladder to mastersmith but God had other plans.


I never want anyone to think that I am saying you can't get to heaven by giving their life to Jesus, that is the ONLY way. I am talking about self effort, In other words you can't get to heaven by your own effort of following Jesus. We must all bend a knee and admit that we can't and trust ourselves to Him. The just shall live by faith. It is all about Him and what He did and not by our own effort. Ed
 
Following Jesus requires effort on our part. However, we won’t have any degree of success without the help of the Holy Spirit. :)
 
The problem I'm having with this is,... if we are already born of the Spirit, why are we still worried about getting to heaven?

Shouldn't we be more concerned about making the world a better place,... right here, right now? The whole bible and the faith is summed up in one simple idea...

... Love one another and in so doing love God, or the other way around. Isn't this what Jesus wants us to be doing?

If we can't understand this, how are we going to help anyone else find the kingdom of God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit?
 
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Just seeing this here at work this morning and hope to say more later but, knowing that we must accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of our live to inherit eternal life, we are instructed to 'follow Jesus'. Two instances come to mind in the book of John where Jesus said to a disciple "follow me". We are to follow Jesus in more than one way, He set examples for us all through his ministry for us to follow, water baptism,prayer,humility,relying on the WORD of God for all things from praying to defense against the enemy of our souls. Anyway, not enough time at the moment but this is an interesting thread and as some have offered their testimonies I want to add mine in along with a testimony concerning my climb up the ABS ladder to mastersmith but God had other plans.


I never want anyone to think that I am saying you can't get to heaven by giving their life to Jesus, that is the ONLY way. I am talking about self effort, In other words you can't get to heaven by your own effort of following Jesus. We must all bend a knee and admit that we can't and trust ourselves to Him. The just shall live by faith. It is all about Him and what He did and not by our own effort. Ed

Were you really trying to say that you cannot get to heaven by works alone? If so then I agree, James teaches about this. Or perhaps that one cannot get to heaven by following Jesus from afar?
 
This thread brought to mind a quote from C. S. Lewis:
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”

It is one thing to follow Jesus... to make him your lord and savior is an entirely different thing. Do the second thing, and the first should naturally follow.
 
It is one thing to follow Jesus... to make him your lord and savior is an entirely different thing. Do the second thing, and the first should naturally follow.


GHEzel Thank you that is exactly what I was trying to say.

One
It is not the ones going to heaven that I am speaking to, Many will say to him Lord, I have done much for you. And He will say I never knew you.. I have met some of these people. A lady who played music for her church every sunday for over 50 years and then in a bible study said "You mean Jesus died on a cross to pay for my sins." Or the preacher that is excited, He has found a church that traces its leadership directly back to Peter. He says "Surely if salvation is to be found it is to be found here."
I am not trying to say you or anyone in particular or even one group in particular, my heart is reaching out to those who are trying to follow Jesus from a distance and I believe there are many. I am truly sorry if you think that I am going about this wrong or that what I tried to do is not appropriate or that I was aiming at anyone or any group. I was not I was simply speaking to the ones who are in every group. The original intent has been misunderstood but the talk has been on target to a point, This is the way to follow Jesus, we must follow Jesus and there is always more to following Jesus. A closer walk, ect.
Again if I did not do this right I am sorry. Ed
 
It is one thing to follow Jesus... to make him your lord and savior is an entirely different thing.

I disagree with this. They are like two sides of the same coin.

In no way can Jesus be a lunatic or a the Devil of hell... unless we haven't understood His teachings correctly. His teachings stand on their own. Other religions and secular society for the most part understand this, why are we not getting it?

Is fundamental Christian theology missing the point?... maybe so.

We cannot "make" Jesus our Lord and Savior. He already is. He did that. He is the Lord and savior of all humanity, already. Only He can make us realize it and only He can help us understand correctly...

... I guess it's really all the same thing. I'm just looking at it from the outside in, rather than the inside out. I really don't want to try and weed through the theology. It is very complicated,... but it doesn't have to be.

If what I am saying goes against the beliefs of this group, just tell me and I will go.
 
…I guess I should explain my theology a little, at least in terms of doctrine, and why I don’t consider myself a fundamentalist. I’m not going to be able to explain how I arrived at it or what it implies, at this time.


#1. I don’t believe that the Trinity can represent true monotheism, without including pantheism.


#2. I don’t believe in the literal inerrancy of the bible.


If this is a forum strictly for fundamentalists, I won’t interfere.
 
GHEzel Thank you that is exactly what I was trying to say.

One
It is not the ones going to heaven that I am speaking to, Many will say to him Lord, I have done much for you. And He will say I never knew you.. I have met some of these people. A lady who played music for her church every sunday for over 50 years and then in a bible study said "You mean Jesus died on a cross to pay for my sins." Or the preacher that is excited, He has found a church that traces its leadership directly back to Peter. He says "Surely if salvation is to be found it is to be found here."
I am not trying to say you or anyone in particular or even one group in particular, my heart is reaching out to those who are trying to follow Jesus from a distance and I believe there are many. I am truly sorry if you think that I am going about this wrong or that what I tried to do is not appropriate or that I was aiming at anyone or any group. I was not I was simply speaking to the ones who are in every group. The original intent has been misunderstood but the talk has been on target to a point, This is the way to follow Jesus, we must follow Jesus and there is always more to following Jesus. A closer walk, ect.
Again if I did not do this right I am sorry. Ed

There are many who follow Jesus (or proclaim to) for what they can get out of it, not what they can give. Those are the ones I believe you are referring to in your first sentences here. A Christians MOTIVE for following Christ is a determining factor. If one follows Christ for personal selfish reasons (and now I can see this is what you were alluding to in your original post) then I do agree, that will not get you into heaven. Christ must be followed because he is the redeemer of our souls in and on whose name we are saved when we cry out to him asking forgiveness for our sin. That is why we follow him, in spirit and in truth because we are HIS, bought with a price we could never hope to pay.
 
Good point! It's not about the reward or personal gain... Those are not the right motives. :)
 
Thi, The Church, Not the building down the street, but Gods people has to often looked for things that are different and put up walls to keep the different away. I don't understand how everyone in the Church believes what they do but I believe this without question. If you follow Jesus Christ for his sake with a true heart then without a doubt you are my brother. I am thankful you are my brother, and when we get to heaven it won't matter who was right on this and who was wrong. The least of the pharisees studied the bible way more than I ever will and they missed the whole point of the bible. Should I think that I am right in my ideas of what God wants from us? I was a youth leader in a small church and we took the kids to a Synagogue, a pentecostal church, a greek orthodox church, a catholic church and this was a methodist youth group. I came to believe that if you took the best of each you would come close to what God had in mind for us. At least closer than any of us are on our own. Thi I guess I am in the same boat you are in I know my beliefs are not according to the teaching of many and if they want me to leave I will also. But I think that this is about love, brother to brother and That should cover all else. Tai, You are My Brother and I Love You. Ed

I guess I should have said accept Jesus as Lord and not make him your lord, To me it has the same meaning but I see that it does not. Ed
 
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Thanks Ed I appreciate that. I love you too. :)

I agree with what you are saying. There are so many different takes on it, just within Christendom itself, not to mention other religions and secular society. It can get very frustrating and confusing. I wish I was the type of guy that could just accept it and leave it alone.

Generally speaking we interpret or look at the bible through different lenses. These are usually given to us by someone or some group. They are guidelines for "correct" interpretations. They usually consist of different sets of doctrines. These doctrines are not in the bible. They are ideas that large groups of people believe in and agree that the bible teaches. If you change the guidelines or doctrines for interpretation, you arrive at different conclusions. Along the same line, the interpretations and conclusions are only correct within a given doctrinal context. There are other types of lenses on top of this such as philosophical framework, cultural framework, science, math etc. Words themselves are another problem and have their own limitations. There seems to be no end to it...

On the other hand, the true Word of God comes directly from it's source and no lens can be put before it. It can not be changed, manipulated or misunderstood. It is self interpreting. The Word of God is God.

... Only God can speak it. All we can do is listen. :)
 
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I disagree with this. They are like two sides of the same coin.

In no way can Jesus be a lunatic or a the Devil of hell... unless we haven't understood His teachings correctly. His teachings stand on their own. Other religions and secular society for the most part understand this, why are we not getting it?

Is fundamental Christian theology missing the point?... maybe so.

We cannot "make" Jesus our Lord and Savior. He already is. He did that. He is the Lord and savior of all humanity, already. Only He can make us realize it and only He can help us understand correctly...

... I guess it's really all the same thing. I'm just looking at it from the outside in, rather than the inside out. I really don't want to try and weed through the theology. It is very complicated,... but it doesn't have to be.

If what I am saying goes against the beliefs of this group, just tell me and I will go.
Either he is who he said he is, or he was not. If he was not, he was either a madman or a snake-oil salesman. If he is who he said he is, we still can reject him, or bow before him. That is the point I was driving at. Either he is the son of God, a liar, or a lunatic. You are correct that he is our lord and savior, whether we like it or not.... but we do have to either accept it and treat him as lord, or reject it and die in our sins. It is really as simple as that.

I for one like having you here...:)
 
Thanks! I like having myself here too. LOL :)

... I am who I am.

He is who He says He is. He wants to know who we say He is.
 
When Jesus asked Peter, "who do you say that I am?", the question contained the answer.
 
When Jesus asked Peter, "who do you say that I am?", the question contained the answer.


Yep, I have heard it said that when the God told Moses I Am who I Am. That in that language He was saying I will be what ever I need to be to meet the needs of my people, and He became the Lamb of God. Ed
 
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