help me out - I need pic's of jigs - Calling all jig pics!

Glenn Dykes said:
Glad to see I am not the only one left on earth using a wilton !
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Over 19 years now. I have to replace the on/off switch every couple of years, a couple of the small wheel bearings, and the main contact wheel, but otherwise it' great. It's like a Timex, "takes a licking, and. . ."

Oh, it's a single speed, REALLY FAST!

David
 
What's a jig?When I got started knifemaking my equipment was very limited,Couldn't afford a 2X72 grinder at the time.At the time my passion to make knives was so strong I decided if I couldn't grind a blade traditionally why not carve it!My point here is to have the passion & determination to learn the skills no matter your equipment or skill level.:D
Now after carving my blades for a few years I recently decided to finally use my Dozier grinder & learn to grind.I'm a newbie at this,but I will learn to grind freehand hell or high water!I've discussed grinding with several knifemakers & their advise is "Learn to grind freehand!"You don't need to use a jig!
Here's some pics of the carving process,Some recently ground blades too.i know I have alot of practicing before I get the control to get consistant grinds,But that's the part of knifemaking that keeps me wanting to learn new techniques.
 

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I believe the use of a jig in grinding or to accomplish another task doesn't destroy or down grade the work but in most cases improves what was wanted to be done by a particular individual or the direct hands on would have been used.Does a surface grinder, milling machine or lathe give the work less quality if they are used correctly for the job at hand? If you've been been doing all of your blade grinding holding on to it with your hands and are doing what you and others concider to be a fine job, then be proud of the work you are doing but don't pretend that the person using the jig to produce a similar quality of work is doing something wrong. They too are trying to obtain or maintain top quality work. Frank
 
Why cant we just get some more pics of jigs without the drama.Some of us are disabled and must use them.Some just like to use them.Who cares.Let your own work stand for itself and dont worry or tell others how they should do it.
 
Frank Niro said:
I believe the use of a jig in grinding or to accomplish another task doesn't destroy or down grade the work but in most cases improves what was wanted to be done by a particular individual or the direct hands on would have been used.Does a surface grinder, milling machine or lathe give the work less quality if they are used correctly for the job at hand? If you've been been doing all of your blade grinding holding on to it with your hands and are doing what you and others concider to be a fine job, then be proud of the work you are doing but don't pretend that the person using the jig to produce a similar quality of work is doing something wrong. They too are trying to obtain or maintain top quality work. Frank
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Where does it stop, Frank? At what point do you cross the line and stop being a knifemaker, one who makes knives by hand, and become the operator of a knife manufacturing facility? If you like grinding with a jig, you could probably find an old mechanical blade grinder like the old factories used. That could will get old though, so you invest in a CNC blade grinder like modern factories use. Why stop with a jig when you can have a machine in which you load a blade blank, push the button, and a couple of minutes later you have a blade that's completely ground? Why stop with blades? I'm sure there are fixtures for holding blocks of wood and ivory for shaping.

Factories can design knives as well as knifemakers, and in many cases are better. Factories can and in some cases do use the same quality materials. One of the biggest things that set knife MAKERS apart from knife FACTORIES is the hand work. If a maker is depending so heavily on tools to do the work because he either can't or won't do it by hand, he's turned into a one man knife factory.

The first knifemaker I met with a disability went by the handle "One Hander", and yes, he had only one hand. He made mostly folders including autos, and they were excellent. I've known Jeff Cover for many years. Jeff was right handed. . . until he lost it as a teenager. Jeff is a very competent knife maker. I've fly fished with him several times. He catches more trout than anybody I know! He also ties his own flies and ties them on his line. There was an older man years ago in the Guild whose name I've forgotten. He'd wheel his wheelchair up the grinder and work. He couldn't move around like I can, but he sure managed to do a great job!

Mcahron, you ask who cares. Many of the people who buy our knives do! They want to know that a maker uses his hands to make the knives he calls "hand made". I don't know what your disability is. If you do in fact need a jig, then use it. However, as I stated above I've know several disabled men who ground or still grind fine knives without jigs or fixtures.

So again, where is the line drawn? What are you telling your customers?

David
 
I have osteoarthritis,degenerative disc disease,Rheumatoid,and tendinitis.I make my own damascus,forge,engrave,carve,etc.I also grind free-hand when Im able.But if my hands and wrist are so swollen I cant even hold a glass of water am I just supposed to sit around doing nothing.NO! I can grab a jig to do some grinding and remain productive.So if Ive made my own damascus,stabilized and shaped my wood,engraved the knife,built a sheath,but used a jig to do the simplest part in knife making(the bevels)and then its not considered hand made?!
 
mcahron said:
I have osteoarthritis,degenerative disc disease,Rheumatoid,and tendinitis.I make my own damascus,forge,engrave,carve,etc.I also grind free-hand when Im able.But if my hands and wrist are so swollen I cant even hold a glass of water am I just supposed to sit around doing nothing.NO! I can grab a jig to do some grinding and remain productive.So if Ive made my own damascus,stabilized and shaped my wood,engraved the knife,built a sheath,but used a jig to do the simplest part in knife making(the bevels)and then its not considered hand made?!
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I appreciate that everyone has been respectful and professional but this debate nearly always heats up and it is showing signs of that now.

If you use a jig to make a knife, it is still making a knife and that makes you a knife maker. If you use a jig to make knife that doesn't involve electricity that is still a hand made knife.

If you use a 3D CNC cutter, water jet, batch heat treat, that still makes you a knife maker.

Enough debate about the definitions.

This thread is about jigs and pictures of jigs. Let's get it back to that.
 
Boss I sent you a PM with contact information on a gentleman I met this weekend that makes a few different jigs I thought you may be interested in.
 
Boss Dog has some stuff of mine to post on the simplest easiest to use most usefull grinding jig there ever was or will be. Makes some of the newer ones difficult to use. You can do all sorts of blade shapes and sizes if you build the table long enough. Could cost $50-%75 to put together yourself as long as there is a place on your grinder that will allow you to attach a table that will move in and back out and up and back down. He's been busy but it has been some time and perhaps he can manage to post the couple of pages of diagrams now. I know Tracy has been terrible busy. Sorry , I can't do it but I may be able to now get a new member to the dogs to help. He contacted me and I sent pages of to him. I will be very happy to provide all information which is to simple to believe and answer all questions. As us old folks would say "it's the real cat's wiskers" Frank
 
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Frank,
Don't let anyone accuse you of being a computer nerd. I managed to get one of those pictures to come out you sent me. :D
Fortunately,it appears to be the most informative picture showing your grinding jig.




Frank Niro said:
Boss Dog has some stuff of mine to post on the simplest easiest to use most usefull grinding jig there evert was or will be. Makes some of the newer ones difficult to use. You can do all sorts of blade shapes and sizes if you build the table long enough. Could cost $50-%75 to put together yourself as long as there is a place on your grinder that will allow you to attach a table thet will move in and back out and up and back down. He's been busy but it has been some time and perhaps he can manage to post the couple of pages of diagrams now. I know Tracy has been terrible busy. Sorry , I can't do it but I may be able to now get a new member to the dogs to help. He contacted me and I sent pages of to him. I will be very happy to provide all information which is to simple to believe and answer all questions. As us old folks would say "it's the real cat's wiskers" Frank
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OK, I found a couple more files that Frank had sent. I thought they were mangled, turns out they are .pdf' scans of some handwritten drawings Frank made. He is a computer nerd after all.

here they are:
 

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OKay and here I start. This set up can be used on 2" wide belt machine that flat grinds or hollow grinds. I have two similar machines that look like Wiltons. One has a 8" or 10" wheel and one has a flat platten with a glass overlay. My grinding table and blade holding fixture can be used on either machine. I grind drop points, spear points, boots, fighters, Persians, skinning knives and I'll bet I can easily do a Kris with this set upand all my folders, some of which can be seen on customknife.com if you search you can see.The blocks that will hold the blade I will call the fixture. It should be about 3 1/2 X 6of two pieces about 1/2" thick" and if at all possible be made of a cloth or canvas micarta because they will be going into the slack pail ( pail of water to keep the blades cool) on a regular basis. Water gets on the table and because you will be sliding an area of material across it the fixture will want to stick or not slide smoothly. Both sides of the fixture should be the same sizes and assemled with a bolt on each corner. They must fit flat on the one surface at least that will be making contact with the table. On the inside of the fixture there should be to be two slots cut parallel to the bottom. One could be at center approximately and the other say 1/4" below this. These slots should be deep enough and wide enough to allow a rod of say 1/16" or 3/32" 0r 1/8" to lay in the slot and be loose enough to slide it in or out. This rod will be the alignment help tool.
The table must be made long enough so that it will hold the fiture, plus the length of the blades you plan to grind times two. You will be drawing the fixture to the right and then to the left or visa versa. The table should be made of metal say angled aluminum of say 3" of wideth on each side . It must have a section cut out so it sits into the wheel or flat platten. There must be a meathod of moving the table in more or out and it must also be made to move up and back down. This table when ready to be used must sit at 90 degress to the grinding wheel or flat platten. A simple leg support can be used to help achieve this .
Okay, so here is what to do once you have your fixture and table ready to go. Scribe the usual lines on the blade edge to give you the thickness at the edge you want with allowance for the four six or sizes of belt grits Place the handle part of your blade or the pivot end into the the fixture. Place a spacer of the same thickness into the far end to give an even spacing. If you have already tapered the back end then make the distance in with a marker and use this as the thickness needed for the spacer. Place the rod ito the slot that was cut on the inside of the fixture and allow it to stick out say six or more inches. this rod should provide the general upper limit of the grind you will be doing. On a very curved blade like a Persian the rod will sit sort of across the lowest part you want the grind. Now for the GO part.
The fixture is always left flat on the table and never tilted. You will be moving the fixture in an arc motion but still keep it flat. Place the fixture on the table. Tilt the table into a position that will not grind high but in fact may grind more to the lower part of the blade.Tighten the table position, turn on your machine, place your blade lightly and as parrall to the belt as possible and draw it across. If the grinding is definitely more on the edge adjust you table down a bit and go again. Now pay attention to where you are near or far on the scribe lines. Theses are your guide lines !!! If you have your angle adjusted - it might take a few trys, now all that is necessary is for you to draw the blade across the table so that you grind up to the line . Do the course starting grit on one side then on the other then the next size on each size Try some regular steel say in a drop point shape to start. Ask all the questions you want but don't ever try to tell me this won't work without getting your mind changed by using it. I do all of all of my blasdes with this set up. Better blade grinding to all !!! Frank
 
I know Jantz has a couple of different jigs that they sale. I think the hollow grinding jig they have is interesting, but man are they proud of it. I think it costs around $250. That's a little rich for my blood.

has anyone used or seen what that jig?

One comment I have about Fred's jig. I don't think it can be called a jig in the truest since. it still requires everything to be hand, that's what I see as being the true genius behind it. there is still going to be trial and error. I can't wait to get one for myself.
 
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