help me out - I need pic's of jigs - Calling all jig pics!

Fred Rowe said:
I have to argue the point:

Speaking only of the jig I make, grinding with it is simplicity itself.

First, its used free hand with no need to rest the jig on the tool rest.

You can set angles of approach from 2 degrees to 15 degrees. Which will cover any grind angle that might be needed.

You can grind on a vertical or horizontal machine or any where in between.

The bevel clamp holds material from 3/32 to 5/16 inch.

The jigs weight is 8 oz. Its light weight allows for easy free hand grinding.

When you grind a blade using this jig your plunge cuts and flats are perfect. You can't ask much more than that.

Working on my 500+ blade, using this jig, that's how I know it works.

I have a video on line if you want to see the jig in use.

Some jigs, I agree, are more trouble than they are worth; but not all of them.

Regards, Fred:)
Click to expand...

I am 100% sure your jig works better than mine, haha! Mine was limited in that it needed to be slid across the tool rest. This caused problems as i couldn't properly "follow" the blade shape. It was also complicated because once you grind one side of the blade, you'd go to grind the other side and the "flex" of the blade that no longer sat flush against the jig would cause a slightly different grind that needed to be corrected. In the end, I found that my freehand grinds seemed to feel like less work.

How do all these jigs properly grind recurves and the belly of the blade? Do your grind lines follow the blade profile like freehand grinding?
 
David Schott said:
I am 100% sure your jig works better than mine, haha! Mine was limited in that it needed to be slid across the tool rest. This caused problems as i couldn't properly "follow" the blade shape. It was also complicated because once you grind one side of the blade, you'd go to grind the other side and the "flex" of the blade that no longer sat flush against the jig would cause a slightly different grind that needed to be corrected. In the end, I found that my freehand grinds seemed to feel like less work.

How do all these jigs properly grind recurves and the belly of the blade? Do your grind lines follow the blade profile like freehand grinding?
Click to expand...



Grinding with my jig is free hand grinding with great control. The side of the bevel clamp runs along the side of the platen, establishing this angle, while you use the preset bubble to establish the angle of approach.

You establish the flats or bevels using the bubble as a guide; as you move into the radius area along the belly behind the tip, you switch to total free hand and use the motion you use in all free hand grinding. Since your coming off matching flat surfaces, on both sides of the blade, it is easy to get matching even grinds along the belly and tip.

This is a friend of mines first attempt at grinding a blade. I swear.

Think how his grinds will look with some practice.

metorite+dagger+030.jpg


It needs a little clean up, but you can see the results.

Thanks for your response.




Regards, Fred
 
Fred Rowe said:
I have to argue the point:

Speaking only of the jig I make, grinding with it is simplicity itself.

First, its used free hand with no need to rest the jig on the tool rest.

You can set angles of approach from 2 degrees to 15 degrees. Which will cover any grind angle that might be needed.

You can grind on a vertical or horizontal machine or any where in between.

The bevel clamp holds material from 3/32 to 5/16 inch.

The jigs weight is 8 oz. Its light weight allows for easy free hand grinding.

When you grind a blade using this jig your plunge cuts and flats are perfect. You can't ask much more than that.

Working on my 500+ blade, using this jig, that's how I know it works.

I have a video on line if you want to see the jig in use.

Some jigs, I agree, are more trouble than they are worth; but not all of them.

Regards, Fred:)
Click to expand...

Fred,
How much is your bubble jig? I know I saw it some where a while back, just can't remember. Also include shipping to zip code 36110, Thanks , I'm just interested, Rex
 
Hey Tracy, look at our grinding video. We use aluminum channel piece 2 or 3 alignment pins, Angle adjustment screw, and guide lines. Cheap and easy to build , all you need is a flat rest in front of the grinder to move the jig on.
 
David Broadwell said:
You are!

My favorite grinding jigs in the picture below, and one of the blades I ground with them.

David
Click to expand...

It's hard to argue with that.
I think a guy should learn to grind free hand but I'm not opposed to using jigs either.
 
Beautiful work David, as usual but I can't, for the life of me, figure out how you keep from messing up the fancy work at the ricasso. :D

Love your work,
Carey
 
BossDog said:
It's hard to argue with that.
I think a guy should learn to grind free hand but I'm not opposed to using jigs either.
Click to expand...

Tracy,

I believe that if a guy just can't grind free hand, he should use a jig. However, what I've seen in the last several years is that new guys start off with a jig and never advance beyond them. A jig become a crutch that is so comfortable they don't want to throw them away, and they never "spread their wings and fly" so to speak. The jigs allow you to only do relatively simplistic bevels, but if you become familiar with your own hands and learn how to grind freehand you can do so much more.

A year or two ago someone posted a video of a maker at Blade who went to the booth of a grinder manufacturer. He used a jig to grind a simple drop point hunter. All the "newbies" were raving about the jig. The maker in the vid over ground one side and had to re-define his edge profile before going to the other side. In the end, his grinding was no better and no faster than if I'd done it freehand. As a matter of fact, I believe that same blade could have been roughed in faster if ground freehand.

Again, if you have to have a jig to grind, then do so. Just don't become dependent upon one and never try doing more.

Thanks, Carry. The best thing I can say is "Feel the Force, Luke"! :D You have to know where your hands and blade are in relation to the belt, and it's as important to feel your way around the grinder as watch what your hands are doing. A jig would not have allowed me to make grinds like this. I have been practicing for a long time too!

David
 
David Broadwell said:
Tracy,

I believe that if a guy just can't grind free hand, he should use a jig. However, what I've seen in the last several years is that new guys start off with a jig and never advance beyond them. A jig become a crutch that is so comfortable they don't want to throw them away, and they never "spread their wings and fly" so to speak. The jigs allow you to only do relatively simplistic bevels, but if you become familiar with your own hands and learn how to grind freehand you can do so much more.

A year or two ago someone posted a video of a maker at Blade who went to the booth of a grinder manufacturer. He used a jig to grind a simple drop point hunter. All the "newbies" were raving about the jig. The maker in the vid over ground one side and had to re-define his edge profile before going to the other side. In the end, his grinding was no better and no faster than if I'd done it freehand. As a matter of fact, I believe that same blade could have been roughed in faster if ground freehand.

Again, if you have to have a jig to grind, then do so. Just don't become dependent upon one and never try doing more.

Thanks, Carry. The best thing I can say is "Feel the Force, Luke"! :D You have to know where your hands and blade are in relation to the belt, and it's as important to feel your way around the grinder as watch what your hands are doing. A jig would not have allowed me to make grinds like this. I have been practicing for a long time too!

David
Click to expand...

David,

I follow your line of reasoning and respect your comments; your work speaks for itself.

I might add; some makers use a grinding jig and are not able to produce a useful proportioned knife. Others grind free hand, with the same results. So I ask, is it whats between a makers ears that makes his or her work pleasing or is it the machinery that is used.
If someone takes the neotribal approach to knifemaking and he produces a stunning knife that is beautifully ground; is it because he used a limited selection of tools or is it whats between his ears that makes the difference?
A maker that produces stunning gun/knife combos and has every machine known to man available to him, I ask the same question; is it the machinery or the talent the maker possesses that makes the difference.

To me it boils down to this; if a person has very little talent for the work he is doing, no amount of machinery, jigs or the right light will help, on the other hand a person gifted with talent and having passion for his work, will produce a beautiful and functional work of art using an antler tine and a piece of flint or obsidian.

Regards, Fred

Below is one of my favorite jigs and a knife I made using the jig.

featherwithafighter+006.jpg


Jigs+are+what+made+us_+022.jpg
 
Three degrees out from ninety degrees, when your cutting threads with a tap, results in a tilted hole. The bolt wont be square to the surface.:eek::(

This little jig, that took a half hour to make, made all the tapped holes straight, with the result, the bolts went in straight.

Thats a neodymium magnet in the base; it holds the jig to the steel.
Jigs+are+what+made+us_+023.jpg


Jigs+are+what+made+us_+024.jpg
 
I made a "Tapping Plate" years ago. I showed it at the ABBA meeting Saturday. Every time that I tap a hole I use it, or if I haven't used that size tap before I drill and tap a hole in the plate that size. Now I rarely have to drill and tap a new hole. I use a C clamp to hold the plate to what I am tapping, though a good strong magnet glued to the plate would obviously be better, when tapping steel. The other point in using a Tapping Plate and the tap going in absolutely perpendicular is that you break fewer taps.
 
You buy a ready made tapping fixture that fits in a drill press for alignment that you turn by hand. I've got two different ones that work super. They cost me about $12 and $15. The only way you will break a tap in these is if the tap is worn out or the hole drilled is undersize. Frank
 
The breaking of 4.50 cent taps was what got me busy making a jig.

I clamp this one down when I get tired of holding onto it.

I don't break bits much any more, they wear out instead and you feel like you get your use out of them when you through them away in one piece.cool 1

Fred
 
Fred Rowe said:
David,

I follow your line of reasoning and respect your comments; your work speaks for itself.

I might add; some makers use a grinding jig and are not able to produce a useful proportioned knife. Others grind free hand, with the same results. So I ask, is it whats between a makers ears that makes his or her work pleasing or is it the machinery that is used.
If someone takes the neotribal approach to knifemaking and he produces a stunning knife that is beautifully ground; is it because he used a limited selection of tools or is it whats between his ears that makes the difference?
A maker that produces stunning gun/knife combos and has every machine known to man available to him, I ask the same question; is it the machinery or the talent the maker possesses that makes the difference.

To me it boils down to this; if a person has very little talent for the work he is doing, no amount of machinery, jigs or the right light will help, on the other hand a person gifted with talent and having passion for his work, will produce a beautiful and functional work of art using an antler tine and a piece of flint or obsidian.

Regards, Fred

Below is one of my favorite jigs and a knife I made using the jig.

featherwithafighter+006.jpg


Jigs+are+what+made+us_+022.jpg
Click to expand...

Fred,

I have seen your jig and I do think its a cool idea, although I am not a jigger. I have taken a number of jobs where the jigs I have seen so far would not be of any use, and these are the jobs of have found to be most interesting. I think that your comment about talent and the quality of the gray matter between the ears are quite entertaining and relevant. I do know that making high quality knives requires fine motor control and the patience to train your hands to make precise movements consistently. Jigs can help in this area, but cannot take the place of these skills entirely. I see too many people these days that want instant gratification and learning knifemaking is not a skill to be acquried in a day. I believe everyone born is gifted with talents and the capability to learn many skills, everyones portions are a bit different and this results in the many vagaries of the individuals we interact with, in addition to the experiences each person has over the course of their life. Many have just the right portions are just right for the complex set of skills necessary to craft a nice well-balanced knife, others will not be able to no matter how long they work at it, though some may acquire enough skill to make adequate knives.
 
Delbert Ealy said:
Fred,

I have seen your jig and I do think its a cool idea, although I am not a jigger. I have taken a number of jobs where the jigs I have seen so far would not be of any use, and these are the jobs of have found to be most interesting. I think that your comment about talent and the quality of the gray matter between the ears are quite entertaining and relevant. I do know that making high quality knives requires fine motor control and the patience to train your hands to make precise movements consistently. Jigs can help in this area, but cannot take the place of these skills entirely. I see too many people these days that want instant gratification and learning knifemaking is not a skill to be acquried in a day. I believe everyone born is gifted with talents and the capability to learn many skills, everyones portions are a bit different and this results in the many vagaries of the individuals we interact with, in addition to the experiences each person has over the course of their life. Many have just the right portions are just right for the complex set of skills necessary to craft a nice well-balanced knife, others will not be able to no matter how long they work at it, though some may acquire enough skill to make adequate knives.
Click to expand...

Morning Del,

Well said2thumbs
Jigs of any kind should not be looked on as, or depended on to, take the place of skill. They do have their place.

I agree wholeheartedly; its the unknown, the challenges, that rekindle the excitement that is at the heart of knifemaking.
Doing the repetitive, which I know you are very familiar with, is not the stuff that drives us. The excitement we feel when someone presents us with something new to deal with, a new challenge is what is truly inspiring. I love that feeling also.:cool:

The gray matter comment was not a reference to IQ, but to skills acquired through life and the right brain left brain phenomenon. We each learn in our own manner. I wanted to clarify that statement so there would be no doubt what was meant.

The satisfaction I get from watching a raw recruit grind with my jig is one of the base reasons I put it on the market.
I think there are thousands of people who start out with good intentions, every year, to become knifemakers; but they drop out due to the frustration of not being able to grind a blade that is close to being acceptable.
They lose heart and are convinced they will never be able to do it.

The feedback I get from people is truly inspirational. People who were ready to throw in the towel are now excited and looking to be challenged.
That is also a wonderful feeling to have.

I hope the January thaw last for a while, Fred:eek:2thumbs
 
Hey Fred!

It doesn't seem like Tracy is getting many jigs but boy is this and interesting exchange of ideas.

I have only recently seen your jig and watched you video and it seems to work really well. I just can't seem to get my head around it. Don't take that as a negative comment. I have the problem, not the jig.

I still struggle with grinding but I don't do it enough so that I have developed the kinetic memory of you or David Broadwell. I do find that I get better with each one that I do.

What you said about so many people starting to make knives and giving up so quickly really got me to thinking. Could it be a tool problem? How many new makers have you heard say they got some kind of small benchtop grinder designed for home woodworkers to grind knives on? It's hard enough to learn to grind knives on a grinder designed for that purpose. It's next to impossible to figure it out on a 2 x 48 going a thousand miles an hour. Most folks would learn a lot more a lot faster working with 10XX steels and files. You could forge a ten inch blade with a 16 oz claw hammer on a piece or railroad track chained to a workbench using a two brick forge but you probably won't enjoy the experience and you'll probably hide your first twenty. There is no way I could go to David's shop and hope to produce his quality of work but the learning curve would be a lot shorter.

I'm through ramblin' now.:D

Carey
 
Hello!

I started making my own blades for about a year ago, I'm a stock removal guy and I'm a big fan of jigs. I'm using a similar jig as Bob Terzuola shows in his book, the only differece is that I have an adjustable work rest and don't adjust the angle on the jig. I have a Swedish made grinder designed for knifemaking, quite similar to a KMG.

This is the seven first blades I finsihed:

blad.jpg


A year later I have made about a hundred blades mostly scandinavian sticktang blades but also fulltang blades, damascus blades, choppers and kitchen knives in many diffrent grinds. I have never binned a blade when using the jig.

I tried to learn freehand grindning and ruined 9 out of 10 blades. I would love to be able to grind freehand but for me, and the stuff I make, it's not worth it. I don't think I still would be doing blades today if it wasn't for the jig.

I think jigs for grindning is great for begginers and in Scandinavia where I live 90% of the makers are using jigs when grindning.



Regards Jakob
 
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