Your thoughts on carbon steel edge retention on hunting knife

samuraistuart said:
Warren, maybe I missed something? I didn't take your comment as "aimed at me", my friend! I really appreciated it. Just threw in the other thoughts. You and I see eye to eye! Especially 15n20. What an under-rated steel!
Click to expand...

No, you didn't miss anything. I just didn't want you to think I was questioning your heat treat process, or knowledge on the steels you are using.

Warren
 
Something that I've not seen mentioned in this thread, that I feel is very often overlooked, is the ease for the average "user" to resharpen a blade. As we all know, any knife blade is going to dull with time and use. One of the highest priorities my using clients mention is "How easy is it to resharpen?" From that prespective, I personally dislike S30 and S35VN. I've produced hunters from each material, and more often then not, the client(s) will send them back to me when they need to be resharpened...especailly S30.

In general, looking at the overall picture, I far prefer carbon steels for hunters. Personally, when a client wants the best hunter I can produce, my "go to" steel is 52100. That being said, I must say that there is a caveate..... and this will likely cause debate, but in my experience, there is a major difference between a stock removal 52100 blade, and a properly forged one, in favor of the forged 52100. Likewise with 5160.

The CRV80 is interesting in that its a steel that seems to make no difference between forging and stock removal. What I appreciate about it is its ability to be sharp and tough with a very fine edge cross section. (as John mentioned)
 
Ed, thanks for your thoughts, they are always much appreciated. My friend actually brought up the point about sharpening. He said the opposite of what I thought he would say. He told me "I would rather have a steel that is harder to sharpen but stays sharp longer. I don't want to have to sharpen my knife in the middle of gutting a deer." But we have settle on carbon steel for this first go around. I can say with certainty that he has never used a custom carbon steel knife. I think he is going to be blown away by the performance. If he can do what I do, WIPE THE DAMN THING DOWN WHEN YOU'RE DONE, and not just throw it back into it's sheath, we'll be all set. I have never had a forged 52100 knife with the Fowler treatment to compare it with a stock removal blade. So I am not going to make any claims, other than this is one of those situations where I "have to see it with my own eyes" to believe it. It simply makes no sense to me at all, but that's just me and my "current" opinion.

Scott, I would LOVE to hear the results of an O1/O7 stand off!!! I made this first one out of O7, but I doubt I'll stick with that in the future for his knives. It may very well be 52100 or O1 or W2. Muchos gracias for the input on availability. That is a big concern. I do like the O1 route......precision ground and all!

Warren, you would be a friend to question me!!! I always love hearing from you and Scott!
 
Just now looked at the Svord link. Am I dreaming? Didn't they use 1075 on most their products? Looks like it's 15n20 now, and good for them!
 
samuraistuart said:
He told me "I don't want to have to sharpen my knife in the middle of gutting a deer."
Click to expand...

This is where we need to educate. As you mentioned in your post below. Any properly heat treated knife steel should be able to do that.

samuraistuart said:
Just now looked at the Svord link. Am I dreaming? Didn't they use 1075 on most their products? Looks like it's 15n20 now, and good for them!
Click to expand...

Hey, hey, hey.....let's not knock 1075. ;) It's some great steel. I've said before and I"ll say it again, if I HAD to pick just one steel for every knife big and small, I'd choose 1075, at least Aldo's variety. It's my favorite steel for a lot of reasons. And it keeps it's edge plenty long for almost anyones tastes. I have a LOT of hunters out there in 1075 and get lots of great reviews on them.

My dad has a forged 1075 hunter of mine that has field dressed and skinned 5 deer now. It won't shave hair now but it will probably field dress 2 or 3 more before it needs sharpened. It would still shave hair after 3. It's not gonna win any edge holding contests but it holds it long enough and sharpens up like a dream for just about anybody.
 
It seems like the advent of the hype wear resistant steels got people a bit out of track ;)
Simple carbon steels will hold a keen edge for any human use.... let the big carbide steels for industrial abrasive material cutting machines!!! :9:
Very interested in o1/o7 comparative....do not overheat o7, 800°C austenitization will do!
 
stezann said:
It seems like the advent of the hype wear resistant steels got people a bit out of track ;)
Simple carbon steels will hold a keen edge for any human use.... let the big carbide steels for industrial abrasive material cutting machines!!! :9:
Very interested in o1/o7 comparative....do not overheat o7, 800°C austenitization will do!
Click to expand...
overheating seems to be the standard warning for blade heat treat. 800C is my go to temperature for O1 and 1.2519(pretty close to O7 in makeup) because it is the easiest to see on my kiln's pyrometer. I have several blades of O1 and 1.2519 that are the similar shape, close in thickness, and same hardness. right now the blades are Rc64-65, i will probably take a set and temper again a little warmer and shoot for Rc61-62.
 
Yes, 800c is the number... any hypereutectoid will cause problem when overaustenitized, but tungsten steel may be very tricky to recover if the temperature is overshooted. I think about normalizing heats....if the tungsten carbides start to coalesce and grow, it will be difficult to reset. On the contrary o1 lend itself well to the carbide game, and normalizing could be an advantage to the process.

Did you find any difference in the cutting ability of the o1/1.2519 knives, hardness aside?
 
stezann said:
Did you find any difference in the cutting ability of the o1/1.2519 knives, hardness aside?
Click to expand...

not really. my blades are either flat ground or sabre ground(about 8 dps), thin stock 3/32" or less, 10 to 15 dps mirco-bevel. when you have a knife that thin, with a very thin grind,(for arguments sake we will say 1/16" spine at handle, some taper to the point, 15 degree blade total angle) you have almost taken steel type out of the equation if you are doing a kitchen knife. IMHO, blade shape, handle shape, the grip you choose and how you cut(push vs pull) will effect cutting ability more than blade material. My current "test mule" project is 1/32"(0.03" or 0.8mm) O1 at Rc 62-64, cuts like a laser on most foods expect winter squash.
 
Agreed 110% gentlemen. 800C / 1475F is THE temperature to use for 52100, O1, O7, CFV, 1095, W2 (with slight variation maybe 1460). Stay under 1500 for sure!

Scott is right. You could take an aluminum can and straighten it out, put an edge on it, and that dog will hunt in the kitchen! OK...maybe a little exaggerated!!! Geometry is the KING in cutting performance!

Just a side note maybe to help someone down the line.......for all that is Holy and Good, remember to use anti decarb of some sort when heat treating Blue steel! I did a 12 minute soak at 1490F yesterday, 390F tempers. The decarb layer is a, well, I don't want to type the language I WANT to use!!!! I've dealt with decarb all the time, usually a non issue. Decarb on Blue steel........dude.....if you're hand sanding......get the beers chilled down. You're gonna be there a while. Side note...sorry!
 
Last edited:
Damn!!!! If only i could get atp or pcb antiscale compound here in italy!!! Tough i manged similar protection with a wash of black furnace cement as decarb protection, but i would like to try the real stuff, given the chanche.
 
I do believe that the carbon steel is the best material used for the hunting knives. I usually get the cold steel hunting knives for outdoors survival.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top