Why so Many Hidden Tangs

Through tangs with a threaded tip, aka take down models; or the same principle with epoxy, have to be considered when discussing knife strength and integrity.
 
To each their own. If someone wants to limit themselves to full tang, that's OK. If hidden tangs were all that bad, they wouldn't be predicting $20,000 bids on the Scagels coming up for auction next month. What the heck did Scagel know, or Bill Moran for that matter? Heck, they were doing it all wrong. Take a bar of steel, grind a couple of angles on it, glue some plastic on and rout the edges to make a handle, and it's all good.
 
NJStricker said:
To each their own. If someone wants to limit themselves to full tang, that's OK. If hidden tangs were all that bad, they wouldn't be predicting $20,000 bids on the Scagels coming up for auction next month. What the heck did Scagel know, or Bill Moran for that matter? Heck, they were doing it all wrong. Take a bar of steel, grind a couple of angles on it, glue some plastic on and rout the edges to make a handle, and it's all good.
Click to expand...

I beleive that Scagel & Moran made Through Tang knives.
Also The late Bob Loveless made those Horrible Stainless Steel full tang knives with plastic handles that he ground a few angles in and his knives command some very large amounts of cash!

he also though that the bit most forgers do about triple quenching was a bunch of Phooey!
He's exact words were.
Each quenching cancels out the one before it and adds nothing!

I enjoy all the craft and skill it takes to make all styles of knives! and don't appreciate anyone belittling the full tang knives That I and others make.

The original questions was asking why?

Cheers!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
I'm not belittling full tang knives. I make full tang knives. I also make hidden tang and through tang knives. Like I said, to each their own. Each requires a little different skill set, but we shouldn't get carried away making sweeping comparisons when there a lot of variables to be considered when comparing the different constructions. Apples and oranges.

BTW, Loveless started out copying Randall (who copied Scagel). If you look at his early works from the 50's, they're crude (compared to Randall's and his later works) through tangs with stacked leather handles.
 
We all started coping someone to a extent. Moran is somewhere in there with those two in lineage, Weren't your knives crude at first? Mine were. They are a bit better now!
OK! all is well! LOL.

Cheers!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
Actually, I use them. I won't sell them, but as long as they take and hold an edge I have them in my car, my tackle box, tool box, garage, etc. They may not look the greatest cosmetically, but when I need a knife I don't have to go far to get one.
 
From a non-knife makers point of view,
Some people like CHEVY, then there are those that like Ford. For me, a hidden tang means more room to carve. And that's the long and short of it.
 
(cue the David Letterman Top Ten List theme music)

...and the number one reason to make hidden tang knivesis.....

Perception of value to collectors.!!!!!!

I still am also a newb at hidden tangs but after just attending the AKA show and being on hand for the judging part of the banquet I must say that the knives percieved as the best looking and most valuable were at least 90% hidden tangs.

Walk around a high end show such as this and ask each maker to hand you most expensive fixed blade and keep track of the ration between hidden and full tang knives and I believe it will be hidden tang 9 out of 10 times.

Of course this has no bearing on durability or strength, just a matter of preference.

Just my opinion,
Steve
 
Steven Janik said:
(cue the David Letterman Top Ten List theme music)

...and the number one reason to make hidden tang knivesis.....

Perception of value to collectors.!!!!!!



I still am also a newb at hidden tangs but after just attending the AKA show and being on hand for the judging part of the banquet I must say that the knives percieved as the best looking and most valuable were at least 90% hidden tangs.

Walk around a high end show such as this and ask each maker to hand you most expensive fixed blade and keep track of the ration between hidden and full tang knives and I believe it will be hidden tang 9 out of 10 times.

Of course this has no bearing on durability or strength, just a matter of preference.

Just my opinion,
Steve
Click to expand...


Steve,
My observation is that I look for what a Pro Chef and well to do home Chefs want in their knives, and I look for their perception of Comfort, balance & strength, etc and their perceived value!.
I have never had one ask me about or if I make Hidden Tang Knives.

Your sense of observation is excellent. That's how you find a niche, And fill it.

Good work!


Cheers!

Laurence

www.westsidesharpening.com/


Cheers!
 
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hidden tangs are definitely harder to make,
which means that a lot of people who are less skilled quickly start producing full tangs (the famous 3-piece knife).
This does not mean, of course, that people who produce these knives are all unskilled, or that most of them are even relatively unskilled. (I may be relatively unskilled, but that is a different issue).
Many historical designs were full-tang (kindjal, sabres and scimitars of all types, puggio, bauernwehr, gross messer, many seax, etc.).
MOST historical designs were hidden tang.

What does this mean? It means that you can, and tens of thousands of people have, bet their lives on properly-made knives and swords of both types. Properly-made. That is the key.

I like them both, a lot. The only little difference I personally have is how hard it is to fit the guard to the handle in a seamless and flat junction. Not the channel through the guard for the tang, but the face of the guard where it meets the face of the handle on a hidden or through-tang. That, for me, has caused me to scrap more handles...

variety is good.

kc
 
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Is there a functional, performance and/or utilitarian reason(s) to hide the tang? If so, what are they?
 
There are several functional/utilitarian/performance reasons I can think of to use a hidden tang.

1) from a forging perspective (especially historically when good steel was a scarce item), you use less metal.

2) Depending on the handle material and construction, the tang is completely sealed. No edges to be exposed to the elements (and in extreme cold weather, no cold metal contacting your palm).

3) It really can improve the weight and balance of a knife, which relieves fatigue and strain on tendons under long use--you don't have to "get used to it." Use a knife a LOT over extended periods and you gain a greater appreciation of knife design & balance.

4) On a handle constructed from a solid block, especially from modern phenolics (micarta), a properly constructed handle supports the tang, adding to its strength. On a full tang you have 2 joints running the length of the handle that are a potential weak spot. Granted, you would need a lot of lateral force to break that joint if it was properly epoxied and a shoulder bolt (e.g. Loveless or Corby) added, but in this area I would give the win to the hidden tang.

5) From a design perspective, you have a lot more flexibility (and potential for artistic expression) with a hidden tang. This isn't necessarily a functional purpose, but it can be when you consider the construction/attachment of guards. Loveless and others have developed some creative ways to get around this with full tangs, but these ways are a lot easier to achieve if you have a mill handy.
 
Looks like its all been said, thanks Gent's. Sometimes I just want to make the properly made stick tang knife, to me, they are more fun to make.
 
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