Trade Secrets

G

Glenn Dykes

Guest
I try to put this up every year . This is the place I tend to hang out these days so here it is.

A.T. Barr's thoughts on Trade Secrets . A.T. is such a nice guy and has helped me several times over the years so I thought I would post this because it the absolute truth .


Trade Secrets
Have you heard the comment “That's a TRADE SECRET”. What a joke! When I hear those words I get really hacked off. To me that means the knifemaker is afraid of me and my knives. It also means he is very small minded. Knife making would not be where it is today, if we did not share secrets. There are no secrets, only new procedures. Knife making is a very complicated process (when it’s done right), I have been making knives over 26 years and I’m a long way from knowing it all. There have been many knifemakers, that have helped me over the years. I am going to mention a few, but there are many more. To all of them I say "Thank You".
R. W. Wilson, Weirton West Virginia
I had made knives about one year when I met R. W. Wilson. Before long I was on my way to West Virginia. I spent a whole week with him. Wonderful man, he was honored in 1996 with the Red Watson award.
Dr. Fred Carter, Wichita Falls, TX
This man showed me many “procedures” that adds quality to my knives. After my time with him my production went down to half the amount of knives I used to make. My quality (I feel) soared. One time he noticed I was admiring some of his patterns, and he told me something I will never forget. He said “A.T., you can copy anything in my shop, except my name”, now isn't that the way it OUGHT to be?
Kit Carson, Vine Grove, KY
Kit was gracious enough to show me the correct way to make a safe and strong liner lock. I asked Kit if I could pay him something. "He said I could repay him by sharing what he taught me", again that's the way it OUGHT to be.
Just recently, I spent some time with W. D. Pease and John W. Smith. Two great knifemakers that shared many techniques. Over the last 25 years there has been many makers that shared their “procedures” with me on the phone and at knife shows. The majority of knifemakers are caring people. If they see a person is having a problem, they hold back nothing.

There are a few makers that will talk their head off, until I mention I am a maker. Then they become very rude and silent. May the “bird of paradise fly up their nose”.
 
I've read this one before. It's a good post.
Pay it forward and it all comes back double more.......
 
LMBOff!!!......That's cold Boss!

Are you gonna take that Delbert? 2guns:bud:

Great post Glenn and very true.
 
I wasn't criticizing. Delbert is awesome when it comes to sharing knowledge and experience...
 
Indian George has been a great help to me by "paying forward". He has answered all of my questions, given me tips on "how to's" and he sent me a big box of all kinds of stabilized woods, stag, wrought iron and Ht'ing relish. I know I may never be able to repay him but I hope to be able to do the same thing for another maker some day. It is this sharing that keeps me coming back to Knife Dogs. God Bless the good people who are willing to help out of the goodness of their hearts.
 
Im not sharing my secrets!:D
Actually
As a noob I havent found a shortage of people sharing information on any subject. Great community.
I hope to one day be able to help someone else and offer some help to someone.cool 1
 
Delbert Ealy said:
I am a maker who will talk your head off if I find out that you are one too. :D:D:D:D:D:D
Click to expand...

Really, no joke? :p Delbert, you make learning technical metallurgy a lot more fun!

About the closest to a real trade secret I've seen in the last 20 years was from Mike Norris. When Mike first started making stainless damascus he had a secret ingredient in it that made it perform better and he wouldn't tell what it was. He was afraid that that other guy who made stainless damascus and was much better known at the time would find out and "borrow" that ingredient. About a year later after Mike had become known as a maker of good stainless damascus, he let us know that his ingredient was D-2 added to the AEB-H and 304. Mike had a legitimate reason for keeping that a secret, but only did so long enough to get himself established.

Fred Carter was an early mentor to me like he was to Glenn. I tended to modify much of what he taught me (like I did with Bob Hajovsky, my first mentor) but my guard fitting and my hand finishing are based upon Fred's techniques.

I think this sharing of knowledge is fairly unique to custom knives. In the fountain pen community where I also play, I've found just the opposite. I asked the designer and distributor (not the maker though) of high end limited edition fountain pens where he got the leather work done for some slip cases he had for a new pen series. I wasn't trying to steal anything, just mainly curious. Mr. Friendly suddenly got really secretive and told me he couldn't reveal his sources. I said thanks and walked away. I've tried to tell the handful of guys who are making pens (from raw materials, not kits) all I know, and those guys are responding like all of us knifemakers do. We all share out little "secrets" with each other and the collectors are starting to appreciate our attitude toward each other. There's only one pen maker we don't bother with, but he's young and thinks he knows it all anyway!

Don't you wish other people in industry would be as open as we are?

David
 
Several years ago I had posted something somewhere about some questions I had on knife making. A guy named Fred Carter offered to help and sent me his number. I called and we talked a couple of different times and he gave me some great tips and pointers. I really didn't know much about him at the time until I got curious later and googled up some of his work. I was pretty fortunate to have a master knife maker like him help little old rookie me. It's a great culture of sharing that has evolved in knife making in the last 20 years.
 
Like David and others, I've been at this a long time. I refer to the time when I started as "the dark years". During that time knifemakers were almost a clandestine society....and would not even give out what we would consider the most basic of information today. I remember calling a well known maker then and asking him what type of solder I should use for guards. The response I got was "You'll have to come to my shop to get that information." And in the next breath he said "But it will cost you $500 a day to come to my shop!" That was 25+ years ago....think about it.

As the internet became operational and folks learned how to utilize it, the information started to flow, and it was either change your attitude, or get left behind and forgotten.

Most of the knifemakers who maintained an attitude of "that's a secret", were quickly forgotten and found themselves a distant memory to most. Those who chose to share, found a whole new aspect of knifemaking and relationships, not only with other makers, but with their customers as well.

In some ways the extreme freedom of information has been a hindrance. An example is that many new makers today, who are not fully serious about knifemaking, simply cannot understand that to become good at forging, grinding, or fit and finish just plain takes time and practice, and a lot of it. They came into knifemaking with a plethora of information at their fingertips, which often brings along with it the expectation of immediate gratification...not always a good mix.
On the other side of that same coin, the extreme availability of knifemaking information has elevated the craft to an all time high. Today we have makers who have only been at it for 2-3 years, turning out knives that are simply outstanding, both in form and function. If you look at what was considered "The Cream of the Crop" in 1982-84, and compare those knives with today's offerings, you'll know what I mean.

My viewpoint? My opinion, and what I always tell my students is....
"If anyone ever tells you "that's a secret", just thank them, and walk away. Those are the people/makers who are afraid of you, and afraid that you going to "take" something away from them. Those folks will simply not share anything, or will intentionally give you false information. Don't laugh, I've seen it.

Looking back, I would have to say "thank you" to that individual I asked the solder question to. Because of that experience, it made me just the opposite...willing to share anything and everything I know about knifemaking.
 
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Denton Eller said:
Indian George has been a great help to me by "paying forward". He has answered all of my questions, given me tips on "how to's" and he sent me a big box of all kinds of stabilized woods, stag, wrought iron and Ht'ing relish. I know I may never be able to repay him but I hope to be able to do the same thing for another maker some day. It is this sharing that keeps me coming back to Knife Dogs. God Bless the good people who are willing to help out of the goodness of their hearts.
Click to expand...

Oh Man??? I sent it to the wrong address. :unsure::unsure:HEHEHEHEHE!!!!
I still waiting to see a knife done with something I sent you.:D
 
I have gotten all my info on making knives from reading on knifedogs and blade forums. I have been told a few things about making.

I have yet to meet another maker in person or visit a knife makers shop.
hopefully soon!!

I have gotten some valuable info that you all have posted here and I am grateful that you have chosen to share this info.

I am hoping to make it to the Janesville show and I plan on picking the brain of
Delbert Ealy!!!!

Heck come to think of it I have never in my life even held a custom knife, except of my first wip!!!!
 
I am hoping to make it to the Janesville show and I plan on picking the brain of
Delbert Ealy!!!!
Click to expand...

NOOO!!! Delbert will corrupt you! Besides, his brain is pretty well pick over, there's not much left ;)

I'm sorry Del, I couldn't resist :D
 
oh Delberts got brains all over the place. he spills more out of his pockets every day than most people have...
 
Blacksmiths have the same attitude. Actually, I don't find much difference in knife makers and blacksmiths. Really knife makers are specialized blacksmiths. I really enjoy both areas and learn bunches from all of the shareing.
I was teaching, demonstrating at the Alex Bealer Blacksmith Association of Georgia Saturday. Stephen Fowler and Ocone Dan were both there. We talked up Knife Dogs USA KnifeMaker.com, and Tracy. Gave out a bunch of USA KM cards and KD cards. We'll see how many more show up here now.
 
I have run across a couple of cases where the "knifemaker" claimed something was a trade secret because he didn't really make his knives and he didn't know how they were made, heat treated, or what kind of steel was used.

For the most part knifemakers have been very willing to help me and show me how they do things. Likewise I have always been willing to show what I know to anyone who is interested.

At the last Knifemakers Guild Show I was very impressed with an incredible folder that Stan Wilson made with no visible pins. I asked how he did that and Stan proceeded to completly disassemble the knife to show me right there on the show table. I couldn't beleive he did that with his main show piece worth several thousand dollars. The engineering that went into that knife was amazing and Stan showed that he was made of pretty good stuff too.
 
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