Tool acquisition ?

C

CattleMaster247

Active Member
Hey Guys,
So I got a couple questions for y'all.
First ? What kind of tongs should I purchase? can't quite figure out how to word this so bear with me. I am looking for a couple of strong sturdy tongs. Is their any brand or specific style you might suggest. I will be using round and flat steel for forming blades.
Second is what is a good hammer or hammer set for the beginner knife maker. Thanks Dugan
 
Not an easy answer. I generally like chain maker's tongs with the V shaped jaws. They can hold both round and flat work. For heat treating I like wolf jaw tongs. I also have a couple of blade tongs that have the ends of the blades bent over to hold flat bar but I'm absolutely blanking on the name. The maker has relocated to Taiwan, if anyone out there can help with the name. Get tongs with the longer reins, that's to say handles. The longer the reins the farther away your hands will be form the fire. They will spread wider but you can always adjust them a bit before you start forging. Still a couple of jaw widths are nice to have. If you are anything like the rest of us you will be developing a collection.

Hammers are much the same. Cutler's/saw maker's/Japanese hammers, where the eye is set to one end of the head, are nice but may be a little harder to control than "regular" types but be more effecient. Different face shapes will move the steel slightly differently. All but one of my hammers are square or oblong in the face. Sometimes when I need a round faced hammer, I need a round faced hammer. It will move steel equally in all directions. Square faced hammers will move steel equally top and bottom and side to side. Oblong faced hammers will move steel the most at right angles to the long axis of the face. My hammers also have a very slight crown to to face, except for the rounding hammer, the one with the round face, which has one face that has a rather domed face. It really moves the steel in all directions but it will also leave a lot of dimples in the steel that will have to be flattened. It's a bit of knowing what to use and when. All but one of my hammers are smithing hammers. One, with the long axis of it's face at a right angle to the handle, was reforged from a 2lb ball peen hammer.

Most of my hammers are in the 2-3lb range with 2-2 1/2lb getting the most use. The three pound hammer will really move the steel and it works in combination with my flatter, spring fuller, or guillotine tool but I still tire more quickly using it. It's not so much that I can't swing it for long, it's that I can't swing it for all that long with control. I have a 1/2 kilo hammer that I use for fine tuning where I want more to bend and flatten work than to move steel. Then I have a 4lb hammer that I only use to stamp my maker's mark with. I even have a wooden maul, aka a thwacker or thwocker, that I use to bend and straighten where I really don't want to compress the steel.

Doug
 
I'm still getting by with a homemade set of tongs that stink. I mostly forge off the end of the bar or weld on a piece of rebar for a handle but more tongs would be nice to have.

Dougs advice sound very sound to me. A couple times I've nearly ordered some tongs and hammers from GS whom Doug is talking about. One of my buddys has a few pairs and loves them.
http://gstongs.com/

Toms Tongs are also recommended by many-
http://www.blacksmithsupply.com/catalog.aspx?Merchant=Blacksmith_Supply&DeptID=202755

I think a couple pairs of z jaw tongs in 1" x 1/4" and 1 1/2" x 1/4" and a pair of box jaws or wolf's jaws would get you started on the right foot along with whatever size round you're planning to work.

My method for avoiding the urgent need for tongs is to forge my blade and ricasso right on the end of the bar then cut it off with enough stock for the tang and finish up forging down the tang using my homemade tongs (z jaw tongs).

I also have a pair made from linesmans pliers with the handles extended I use for heat treating or in general picking up or moving hot steel for anything other than forging. Dropped on the floor, straightening, normalizing in the forge, etc. The box or wolf's jaws would take the place of my homemade ones.

Fellas who are really good with a hammer can do amazing things with very little. The rest of us seem to aquire multiple hammers and modify them to our own liking for specific purposes. I have some with faces shaped for pulling down the edge and others for drawing it out lengthwise. Best advise I can give is dont be afraid to experiment with your hammers face and make specialty hammers. I started this thread on hammers long ago but it sums up most of what I use with pics. I do use my straight peen ALOT and would recommend on of those for sure.

http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?18156-Show-off-your-favorite-Hammers-!-I-ll-start

Take care,

Josh
 
Josh and Doug,
Sorry for the delay in response, I really appreciate the information, very helpful in my research and decision making for tools. Josh I really like the idea of customizing the hammers, for specialized use. So in response to that here is a follow up. So I have acquired a fair amount of hammers in the past year or so, however I did have a wood and a metal shop in my barn, that happened to burn dow, electrical issues. I was able to salvage a fair number of my hammer heads. I was wondering if I may need to temper the heads again, I plan to leave several, with their original design, and several to be modified. The fire was an impressive one at that, burned very hot, mostly due to the accelerants stored in the barn, also the 500 gallon kerosene tank, with its blow off valve managed to produce a flame 8 stories tall for 90 minutes. Just looking to see if the high temperature would cause a need to temper again.
 
Tool ?'s

Looking for a multi wheel buffer. I currently one a 1/2 horse power dewalt bench grinder, I use for my paper wheels, grinding, and looking into adding a separate buffer to the mix. I have seen few modified grinders and buffers that are multi-wheeled, 3 or more wheels attached at once. Anyone have any experience with anything like this?
 
Dugan,
First thing is that a Buffing machine is the most dangerous piece of equipment in a shop.
always buff below the facing quadrant that would be at 90 degrees pointing at you. The first time a knife was grabbed and thrown into the concrete I stood there in shock and then remembered to check all my parts for damage!

I wear a shop apron that's made out of a full thick cow hide & it goes below my knees & I were heavy work boots.. You want to protect the family Jewels:biggrin: as well as your lower extremities from sharp flying objects.

Only cry once. If you want a Buffer. Get a Balbor Brand. new or used.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
The hammerheads will need to be re-hardened and re-tempered to have a proper level of hardness after going throught the fire. It could be done but your dealing with mystery steel so there will be a bit of a crap shoot to heat treating them. If I wanted to undertake such an adventure I'd contact Ed Caffrey or Sam Salvatti (sp) and get their advice on the subject of times, temps, and amount and type of quench to use.

As for the buffer see Laurence's post above :)

To that I'd add that I didn't go the Baldor route mainly do to floor space being a premium in my shop. I built a buffer attachment for my KMG that works fabulously... almost. I tapped the shaft by hand so there's an ever so slight wobble to my buff while running. Eventually this will be cured by threading it on a lathe but the tapered spindle is quick change so no need for multiple shafts because it only takes a second to change the buffs.

Info about the buffing attachment can be found on page 3 of this thread-
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?23426-Help-a-brother-out-Tools-to-build/page3

Always more than one way to skin a cat !

-Josh
 
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