Press Build

[Gliden07]

Been wanting a press for sometime now. 12T Coal Iron $3K, 16T $4700, various others all over the place! I dont have the disposable income now but, I still want a press! What to do?? BUILD IT!! Had the book a friend with a Coal 12T (which I based mine loosly off of). Been chipping away at it for a few months now when I get a few extra bucks and can afford it. Have most of the frame mocked up and the rest of the pieces gathered with the exception of hoses and fittings (waiting to see how long I need after I mount press pump etc...). Needs a bit of tweaking before all final assembly, welding and painting. Took a lot more time than I thought it would and I'm still not done! On the plus side I should be into it for less than $1500 all in including some new shop tools!

 

[KenH]

Glad you started the thread - Since I got my Coal Iron 8 ton press (advertised to be 12 ton) and I've been working with it I've become VERY interested in forging presses. I see you got a 3.5" 2500 psi cylinder - you're right, that's 12 ton. Coal Iron built their first 12 ton press with a 3.5" cylinder and found they could purchase 3" cylinders cheaper and they would still work ok at 9 ton (2550 psi). My press came with adjustment set to 2250 psi for 8 ton. I replaced the 3" with a 4" cylinder ($133 shipped) and am very happy with it now.

What motor and pump did you get? That looks like it might be a 56C motor with a "bell housing" mount for the pump? As you know the Coal Iron press has a 11 to 13 gpm at 3500 rpm pump that's on a 2hp 1750 rpm motor for around 6 gpm low pressure flow.

One thing you might look at, the photo showing the weld in the lower left corner looks like it might need a good cap weld for more strength. I zoomed in closer to the weld I might grind that old weld to clean it up and burn some more rods in those welds. Don't want them breaking under pressure.

Your $1500 is darn close to the numbers I got pricing parts for the same press, except beefing up the side supports some for a 16 ton press. Calculations indicated the current 2"X2"X1/4" angle for side supports would be enough for 16 tons, but I've not increased pressure to 2550 psi for 16 ton.

You do have a pressure gauge for the press?

Be sure to keep this thread going with your build - we'll all wish to follow along.

Ken H>

 

[Gliden07]

Ken I have to cap off some of the welds for sure. I also used 6011rod and plan on covering the root passes up with some 6013 to get a nice bead! 2HP, 56C, 220VAC at 1800RPM mounted on 56C pump adapter. I have a glycerin filled gauge that will be mounted on a Tee on hi pressure side of the 11GPM pump. According to my calculations the Hydraulic setup should be able to support a 4" cylinder and get me to over 16 Ton if I decide to up the output. I am using angle iron to align the ram simlier to Clarke Iron press I saw on Instagram. I talked to him and he said he's had no issue with the steel on steel contact, which I was a little concerned about?

 

[KenH]

You got it going good there. The 2hp motor will run just fine on a 120vac circuit if you need it to, or it can be wired for 220vac. Your pump will be pumping 5.5 gpm at 1800 rpm? OR, where you able to find a 11 gpm pump at 1800 rpm? If so, please link.

Yep, the cylinder lines up with the slide fitting between the 2 angle irons on each side. A very good way to line up the cylinder.

Something I might suggest, especially if you're thinking about 16 tons later on is welding a 1" Square on each side of the 1" thick bar that holds the cylinder on top, and 1" bar where the bottom die sits. This will allow the die seat to be 3" wide on top and bottom both. With the die seat only 1" wide (or 1-1/2" wide in my case) with a 3" long die in the press you have to be careful not to press with billet moved too far out or it will tilt the die. I broke a die holder bracket that way. Easy for you to do now. Even a 3/4" square on easy side would give 2-1/2" wide die seat. I'd LOVE to do that, but it would take a lot of grinding on my press.

Good luck.

 

[Daniel Macina]

Do you have wear plates you’re going to bolt to the side to keep it from moving around? Would’ve been a little bit easier to do that if you had done your angle iron like this a lot more contact for the wear plates to hit.

 

[KenH]

I'd think he could put the slides inside the frame to slide against the inside portion of the angle. What is the inside width of the frame? BTW, what size is the angle iron? Looks larger than 2X2"..... 3X3?

 

[Gliden07]

No wear plates, I talked to Clarke Iron on Instagram and he told me the way mine is setup is how he does his up and has no problems.. Angle iron is 2X2X1/4", I made inside of the frame 11" wide, total width is 15" the cross pieces are 14" for a few reasons I wanted to be able to get a better weld, I can add some ties to reinforce the frame, it hides some of my ugly welding and the main reason was since my cross pieces were cut by me and I had to cut them with a bandsaw the pieces were not all the same width, everything was measured from the center on each piece. I also made the die plates 6" wide. Coals width was a PITA to get the bolts out with a standard wrench. I did not increase the overall width of the dies though.

 

[KenH]

Yep, Coal's die holders and setup is a real PITA for sure. One the first things I changed on my press. 6" long is good, what width have you planned?

I think you're doing a good job - almost wish I was building a press myself. With the meager amount of knowledge I've gained over the last few weeks I think I would build if I was starting over again.

 

[52 Ford]

Ken I have to cap off some of the welds for sure. I also used 6011rod and plan on covering the root passes up with some 6013 to get a nice bead! 2HP, 56C, 220VAC at 1800RPM mounted on 56C pump adapter. I have a glycerin filled gauge that will be mounted on a Tee on hi pressure side of the 11GPM pump. According to my calculations the Hydraulic setup should be able to support a 4" cylinder and get me to over 16 Ton if I decide to up the output. I am using angle iron to align the ram simlier to Clarke Iron press I saw on Instagram. I talked to him and he said he's had no issue with the steel on steel contact, which I was a little concerned about?

What size 6011 and how many amps? (3/32 and 75A? - just my guess) Looked a little cold on some of those welds - I think I see a couple spots where the toe didn't tie in. Just make sure yoy get those welds CLEAN before you cap them - don't want to trap slag at the toes of the root pass.

That's gonna be a really nice press when you get it done.


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[Gliden07]

1/8" 6011, 125A. Die plates are 11/2" wide 6"long, I have a set of flattening dies I'm gonna weld to die plate 1"thick, 2" wide and 3" long. The die plates that I'm gonna weld to ram and bottom are 1/2" thick, 11/2" wide and 6" long. So I'll have the 1/2" thick die plate, 1/4" die mounting plate and a 1" thick flatter die x 2! Yup I have to reweld some of it but that 6011 burns in deep!

 

[52 Ford]

1/8" 6011, 125A. Die plates are 11/2" wide 6"long, I have a set of flattening dies I'm gonna weld to die plate 1"thick, 2" wide and 3" long. The die plates that I'm gonna weld to ram and bottom are 1/2" thick, 11/2" wide and 6" long. So I'll have the 1/2" thick die plate, 1/4" die mounting plate and a 1" thick flatter die x 2! Yup I have to reweld some of it but that 6011 burns in deep!

Gotcha. You going to run that 6013 cap vertical or reposition for a flat weld? I never had good results with 6013 vertical. Then again, I haven't tried in years and only tried it a few times.... I might have to go cut some plate and try that this evening.

If you haven't already, do yourself a favor and try some 5/32 rods.

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[KenH]

Don't even think about welding vertical, that frame is too easily moved around. Do all the welding in the flat position. Even better position the frame so the weld is laying in a "Vee" with each side making a 45 degree angle. With those 6013 rods the slag will just peel up as the weld is being made. Very little chipping required to clean between welds.

 

[Gliden07]

All the welding will be done flat on welding table or elevated in the "V" like Ken suggested. When it's all done I plan on putting a 1/8 or 1/4" plate as a base to bolt thru and onto bench. I need some 6013 I'll pick some 5/32 today up. What should I run welder at to start??

 

[Daniel Macina]

Glad you started the thread - Since I got my Coal Iron 8 ton press (advertised to be 12 ton) and I've been working with it I've become VERY interested in forging presses. I see you got a 3.5" 2500 psi cylinder - you're right, that's 12 ton. Coal Iron built their first 12 ton press with a 3.5" cylinder and found they could purchase 3" cylinders cheaper and they would still work ok at 9 ton (2550 psi). My press came with adjustment set to 2250 psi for 8 ton. I replaced the 3" with a 4" cylinder ($133 shipped) and am very happy with it now.

Their presses aren’t actually 12 ton even though they advertise them as such?

 

[KenH]

Their presses aren’t actually 12 ton even though they advertise them as such?

That is correct. They said the 3" cylinder worked "just fine" (their words). I replaced my 3" cylinder with a 4" cylinder for $133 shipped and am pleased with the result. I now have the exact same hydraulic system as Coal Iron's 16 ton press - not the 16+ ton with has a 5hp motor rather than 2 hp of the 12 (9) & 16 ton presses. The "12" and 16 ton press both have the exact same hydraulic system, except the "12" is a 3" cylinder and the 16 ton is a 4" cylinder. Note, I am NOT running at 16 ton due to possible concerns about the frame.

I never could get them to admit to false advertising, just saying "it works just fine". AND - the 9 ton press does work darn good with those narrow 1-1/2" wide dies they use. Does take near so much pressure to squeeze a billet with that small die.

 

[Daniel Macina]

That is correct. They said the 3" cylinder worked "just fine" (their words). I replaced my 3" cylinder with a 4" cylinder for $133 shipped and am pleased with the result. I now have the exact same hydraulic system as Coal Iron's 16 ton press - not the 16+ ton with has a 5hp motor rather than 2 hp of the 12 (9) & 16 ton presses. The "12" and 16 ton press both have the exact same hydraulic system, except the "12" is a 3" cylinder and the 16 ton is a 4" cylinder. Note, I am NOT running at 16 ton due to possible concerns about the frame.

I never could get them to admit to false advertising, just saying "it works just fine". AND - the 9 ton press does work darn good with those narrow 1-1/2" wide dies they use. Does take near so much pressure to squeeze a billet with that small die.

That’s ridiculous I have never done the math on their system. That would make me very hesitant to ever buy anything from them with that kind of false advertising.

 

[52 Ford]

All the welding will be done flat on welding table or elevated in the "V" like Ken suggested. When it's all done I plan on putting a 1/8 or 1/4" plate as a base to bolt thru and onto bench. I need some 6013 I'll pick some 5/32 today up. What should I run welder at to start??

I start around maybe 110 on the 1/4" and go up from there. I think 110 is considered the low end for 5/32" 6013. Honestly, I don't usually look when I set my stick welder. For something like that, with a 6013 on a flat weld (as in welding down into the Vee) on thick material where you aren't going to blow through, I usually run pretty hot. Watch out for undercut.

As you get more heat in your work you won't need as much amperage (you can compensate with travel speed)

You might want to get a pack of 1/8" rods, too. 6013 has a long shelf life, anyway. I aught to go buy some 6013, too. I don't use them much and I think I'm just about out of 3/32s and 5/32s.


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[KenH]

Daniel, is the photo in post #5 the frame of a press you're building? Looks like a good layout, just like the Coal Iron 12 ton press. What size cylinder do you have? Did you run the numbers on the 2X2X1/4" angle for the sides as to how much stress they could handle? With proper welding and really think it would handle the required 32,000 psi stress of a 16 ton press with the H frame used.

Here's a good link to calculate tons on a press, divide by 2,000 to get tons. https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm

Here's a pretty good page for 6013 rods: https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/stick-welding-with-6013.html

Agreed, on thick material I like a hotter setting to get deep penetration with the weld.

 

[Daniel Macina]

Daniel, is the photo in post #5 the frame of a press you're building? Looks like a good layout, just like the Coal Iron 12 ton press. What size cylinder do you have? Did you run the numbers on the 2X2X1/4" angle for the sides as to how much stress they could handle? With proper welding and really think it would handle the required 32,000 psi stress of a 16 ton press with the H frame used.

Yes. I went with 3x3x3/8” angle and I’m going for 16 tons. Coal irons was not built quite beefy enough for me to feel comfortable building it even at 12 tons.

 

[KenH]

3X3X3/8" is what I was thinking myself. Did you run calculations for that setup? Did you run calculations for the Coal Iron frame and find the calculations on the light side?