Press Build

Gliden07

Well-Known Member
Ok so here are the set of Drawing dies and Flatter dies I made! I made the drawing dies on a 2" Diameter vs the Coals 1" Diameter. I tried the Coals 1" Diameter and thought they were too aggressive these are better but maybe even 3" would be ok?
 

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KenH

Well-Known Member
Dies look really good. I agree the 2" drawing dies should work really good. The 1" Coal Iron drawing dies will really press - I need a kisser die to prevent squishing too much sometimes. I know you're looking forward to your first billet. BTW, your welds are looking good these days.
 

Gliden07

Well-Known Member
Ok so here is a list of things I used for my press build. Please note I may have overlooked some items. Also this was for my specific build so you need to do your own homework as far as bits and pieces. I did not include the bench as I had most of the items to build it except the casters. If you have any specific questions please contact me and I'll do my best to answer.

1- 31/2" Hydraulic Cyl $80 Ebay
1- 11GPM pump kit PCB11GPM0341LG Ruggedmade $170
1-Vevor 2hp 220VAC 1800RPM motor Ebay $183
1-Log splitter 2 stage valve Ruggedmade $90
5-1" Suction Hose (locally bought) $37

Below here are items from surplus Center
3- 940-2236 1/2" x36" hose
2- 9-4501-16-12 1"-3/4" elbow (hose barbs)
4- 9-2501-8-12 JIC 8MX1/2 NPTM90 Elbow
1- 9-2501-8-12 JIC 8MX3/4 NPTM90 Elbow
5- 9-2404-8-8 JIC 8MX1/2 NPTM Conn
10- 9-12496-8 Hose Sleeve for HP hoses
1- Gauge 0-4000 PSI
1- 1/2" NPT Street Tee for gauge
1- 1"50 Micron filter adapter
1- Oil filter adapter with filter
Total for above - $200

Steel (bought locally as shorts/drops)
12- 2x2x1/4" Angle Iron
2- 3x1" plate
1- 4x1" plate
1- 1/8" plate for base
These were all various lengths cut to sizes as needed by me. Some of the extra material ended up in the dies.
Total for above - $200

Electrical
1- Start Stop station Ebay $16
Below was bought locally
15' 12/3SJ cord
1- 4" Single device 3/4" plaster ring
1- 4x4x2-1/8 NW Box
3- Cord grips
1- 20A 220VAC male cord cap
Total - $45

1- Tank 5 gallon Tractor supply $79

1-5 gallon container hydraulic oil $39 Wal-Mart

Misc stuff:
545-Loctite $29
Nuts/bolts $10
Welding rod $30
Misc/Misc $40

Grand Total- $1241

Again this was for my specific build. I collected the parts for over a 6 month period. I'm sure I missed a few things. Pricing was rounded to higher dollar value. Some of the things I bought are no longer listed so I entered closest thing I could find. Also some of the parts are cheaper or more depending on source! If you decide to build one of these you will save money for sure but it takes a fair amount of time to plan and source items, do your homework!! Hydraulic components to a guy that never did this before are very specific and need to be carefully chosen for compatibility (don't ask how I know!). It was a fun project but even after all the parts were accumulated it took almost a month to put together (I'm sure an accomplished fabricator could do it a lot quicker).
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
A very good listing of materials - you really got heck of a deal on that 3-1/2" cylinder at $80! I never even thought about looking on ebay for a cylinder when I ordered my 4" cylinder. For well less than 1/2 price you got a true 12 ton press vs the 9 ton Coal Iron sells as a 12 ton, and learned lots in the process. You did good.

Thank you for starting the thread, and I do thank 52Ford for his modeling work on the computer showing stresses on the frame. All in all, I think we all learned from the thread.
 

Gliden07

Well-Known Member
A very good listing of materials - you really got heck of a deal on that 3-1/2" cylinder at $80! I never even thought about looking on ebay for a cylinder when I ordered my 4" cylinder. For well less than 1/2 price you got a true 12 ton press vs the 9 ton Coal Iron sells as a 12 ton, and learned lots in the process. You did good.

Thank you for starting the thread, and I do thank 52Ford for his modeling work on the computer showing stresses on the frame. All in all, I think we all learned from the thread.

Started doing this forum as a total newbie not knowing a thing! Guys on here were so forth coming with information glad I can make meaningful contributions once in a while! The motor is cheaper than I paid and the 11GPM kit is better than the one I bought because it comes with the motor adapter! I paid an additional 50 bucks for that piece alone!
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
I think for a video you have to upload to YouTube (or other video hosting site) and link to that.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Yep, it works just fine. OH, I see you posted to facebook. Yea, that's another place but I never think of them. I forget - did you make your frame 36" high? Looks like you've got plenty of room with the cylinder raised. You're going to be surprised how hot those dies get when pressing a billet, then changing the hot dies is a real treat - be careful and be sure to have an aloe vera plant close by :)
 

Gliden07

Well-Known Member
Yep, it works just fine. OH, I see you posted to facebook. Yea, that's another place but I never think of them. I forget - did you make your frame 36" high? Looks like you've got plenty of room with the cylinder raised. You're going to be surprised how hot those dies get when pressing a billet, then changing the hot dies is a real treat - be careful and be sure to have an aloe vera plant close by :)
2 things I think im gonna do to press dies 1) Slot the die plates similar to Coal Iron and 2) Install studs in press, if I damage stud it will be easier to remove also was going to use nuts with captured washers in them so when changing dies I won't have to worry about washers falling down. I designed the press to be able to use the full stroke of the Cylinder. The flat dies just contact each other when I fully extend Cylinder. The dies are all 1/4" mount and 1" thick die. That way I can always have close to the same "SQUISH" no matter what die I have in it and it help with strength. It's a bit slower than Coal but again after using a CI I wanted it a bit slower.
 
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52 Ford

Well-Known Member
story behind the "52 Ford"
Was on another forum I hadn't been on in years and saw my profile picture... HERE is my '52 Ford. That was when it was first brought back to the barn. Excuse the REALLY BAD resolution. I think that picture is in the top chest of my toolbox - otherwise, no clue. Ain't a runner right now, so I can't back it out to take another picture.
 

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ABmaker

New Member
Thank you for all this great information, I have been modeling a press and it is very close to yours. A few questions.
- I was considering a 4 in bore cylinder and using either 3/8 or 1/2 angle iron - thoughts - is bigger worth the cost
- on the wear plates I was planning to bolt one side so I could remove the sliding section later
- on the wear plates I thought to cut very small grooves to facilitate lubrication
- seems like you used stick welding for everything, any thoughts on MIG or just stick with the rods

Thanks for any and all feedback
 

52 Ford

Well-Known Member
Thank you for all this great information, I have been modeling a press and it is very close to yours. A few questions.
- I was considering a 4 in bore cylinder and using either 3/8 or 1/2 angle iron - thoughts - is bigger worth the cost
- on the wear plates I was planning to bolt one side so I could remove the sliding section later
- on the wear plates I thought to cut very small grooves to facilitate lubrication
- seems like you used stick welding for everything, any thoughts on MIG or just stick with the rods

Thanks for any and all feedback

Cylinder bore doesn't mean much without knowing the working pressure of the hydraulic system.

Both 3/8" and 1/2" angle iron could work. You need to figure out the leg length and the tonnage of the press.

The Coal Iron H-frame press already has bolted on guide/wear plates. Just make sure you size the bolts properly. With a centered load, they aren't under stress, but with an offset load, they can be under tension. That amount of tension depends largely on frame construction, press width, and cylinder size.
https://coaliron.com/products/copy-of-12-ton-mini-press-1

Cutting grooves in the wear plates to distribute oil better is a nice idea. I don't believe it's necessary, though. Personally, I would operate it the press dry - no oil or grease. Instead I'd rely on a bearing material like bearing bronze. If you felt the need to, you could make steel guide plates and line them with Oilite or maybe even a slippery plastic, like PTFE.

You can use pretty much any welding process you want. Personally, I'd stick weld it, but that's because I have a LOT more experience with SMAW than I do any other process. The important thing, is that you make GOOD welds. Bevel all of your weld joints. Clean them well (acetone wipe down is a good idea). If you see ANYTHING wrong with the weld, you grind it out completely and start over. Porosity, slag inclusions, cold welds, etc. Strive for perfection.


Also, keep in mind that when a welding machine says "1/4 inch max", they're talking about single pass penetration. You should be beveling your weld joints on thick material, anyway, so it shouldn't be an issue.



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Gliden07

Well-Known Member
The press I built has no Wear plates, Clarke Chapin on Instagram told me he has built over 100 of his presses and uses no wear plates. I used 2x2x1/4" Angle Iron with a 3-1/2" cylinder. My Hydraulics set up would run a 4" Cylinder but it would run slower (I did this on purpose so if I decided to go to a 4" cylinder the Hydraulics would support it) but bump the Press output to 20T if I remember correctly. If I did bump press I would build a new frame out of 3x3x3/8 angle iron and would devise some sort of a quick change die set up.
 

52 Ford

Well-Known Member
The press I built has no Wear plates, Clarke Chapin on Instagram told me he has built over 100 of his presses and uses no wear plates. I used 2x2x1/4" Angle Iron with a 3-1/2" cylinder. My Hydraulics set up would run a 4" Cylinder but it would run slower (I did this on purpose so if I decided to go to a 4" cylinder the Hydraulics would support it) but bump the Press output to 20T if I remember correctly. If I did bump press I would build a new frame out of 3x3x3/8 angle iron and would devise some sort of a quick change die set up.
How's that press been working for ya, anyway? Anything you would've done differently?

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KenH

Well-Known Member
Here's a link to calculate the tons of a press based on cylinder bore and pressure.
(edit) https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm
To get 20 ton with a 4" cylinder you're looking a about 3200PSI, which is more than I'd wish to run. With a 3.5" cylinder running at Coal Iron's 2500 PSI you're look at around 12 ton. Since Coal Iron uses a 3" cylinder spec'd at 2550 psi they're only getting around 9 ton from their "12 ton" rated press.

From the calculations I've seen a 3"X3"X3/8" angle in an "H" style press like the 12 ton Coal Iron would handle well over 20 ton with no problem.

Agreed, no special "wear plates" should be required, just bolted on steel as used by Coal Iron. While it sometimes sounds like I'm badmouthing Coal Iron on their 12 ton press, I think the design is very good. The ONLY gripe I've got is selling a 9 ton press and calling it 12 ton. Sounds too much like false advertising to me. I really like my press, it's small enough it mounts on a cart allowing me to roll it around in shop, roll outside to use with forge, and back into shop for storage.
 
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Gliden07

Well-Known Member
How's that press been working for ya, anyway? Anything you would've done differently?

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Press works GREAT!! When I initially fired it up it wouldn't work! I started to freak out! Dummy me wired motor with wrong rotation!! LOL! After fixing that problem the only issue I had was it didn't seem to have the umphh my friends Coal Iron had turned out the Control valve pressure relief was set on 1750ish pounds. Turned it up to 2700ish lbs and the thing came alive!! Do different, I would have come up with a quick change die set up. The bolt in works GREAT especially for die alignment but the dies get hot quickly, good for pressing not good for die changes! All in with mostly new stuff $1200 ish plus or minus a few bucks. Had some steel but for the most part all new everything! And price includes the purpose built bench. I have a few tweaks I need to do. It's a bit top heavy but I'm going to build a tong rack on the back side of the bench for 2 reasons place to store tongs and counter balance bench. Also put it on casters so I can roll it to where I want. Either to get it out of the way or get it closer to what I'm doing.
 

52 Ford

Well-Known Member
By the way, the math on figuring out the force of the hydraulic cylinder...

Pi*r^(2)= area of the piston, call it "a"

Multiply that by the hydraulic pressure to get the force of the hydraulic cylinder

if you have a 4" diameter hydraulic cylinder and your pressure set to 2,500PSI

3.141*2^(2)=12.564

12.564*2,500=31,410

31,410/2,000=15.705

So, the area of the piston face is 12.564 square inches and the force excerted by the ram at 2,500 PSI would be 31,410 pounds OR 15.705 tons.



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