Mark Barone
Well-Known Member
I have used it to make some jewelry and one knife. Is it even worth it to use on a small knife. Why is it so cheap? I did read it is very inconsistent with thickness. Will it hold an edge?
Pakistan Demascus. What’s the story?
- Thread starter Mark Barone
- Start date
Randy Lucius
Well-Known Member
Probably made out of old tin cans and hubcaps. Why even bother with it? If I'm putting in the time and effort to make something, even a small knife, I want the best materials I can possible get. The few dollars saved is certainly not worth it.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
The statement "You get what you pay for" is never more true then when it comes to Damascus. Pakistan Damascus? It's be a boil on the butt of knifemaking for many years. It is NEVER what they list it as..... as Randy said...... "old tine cans and hubcaps".....which is pretty accurate. Pakistan isn't the only "junk" damascus.....there are a number of outfits here in the States who are pumping out crap damascus......just so they can cash in on the popularity of knifemaking.
IF you're going to buy damascus, ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS, and buyer beware! IMO, find yourself an ABS Mastersmith who sells damascus.....or go to Chad Nichols Damascus.......... As far as I'm concerned, anywhere else and your just rolling the dice.
IF you're going to buy damascus, ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS, and buyer beware! IMO, find yourself an ABS Mastersmith who sells damascus.....or go to Chad Nichols Damascus.......... As far as I'm concerned, anywhere else and your just rolling the dice.
Randy Lucius
Well-Known Member
or go to Chad Nichols Damascus.......... [/QUOTE said:Nichols Damascus is great! Our sons coach baseball together and he only lives a few miles from me.
Bruce McLeish
Well-Known Member
can you get us a discount?
Mark Barone
Well-Known Member
Ok then. I think I will stay away from it. Thanks for the recommendations for other places.
springer82
Well-Known Member
I have the logical suggestion. It is very easy for "you" to know how good the damascus is!! 
Randy Lucius
Well-Known Member
I wish. They usually charge me double.
Bruce McLeish
Well-Known Member
figgers !
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Something that has been lost on many in these days of "Forged in Fire" Bladesmithing, is QUALITY. I could rant and rave about it all day long, but suffice to say that it's opened the door wide for the junk damascus to flow.....and it has. A person who knows modern Damascus can generally look at an etched billet or blade, and make a pretty accurate assessment of the material..... and most of what I'm seeing these days.....ain't good.
It's a few pages of reading, but the link below is the ABS Mastersmith performance test, basically the MS candidate must accomplish/pass all the prescribed test with a Damascus test blade.......
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/uploads/file/Testing/MS Test FINAL 4-24-2010.pdf
Mark Barone
Well-Known Member
I
I have made some and as long as the person is not over pricing and misrepresenting where the Demarcus comes from, I think it’s okay. This was made from cheap Damascus. very simple to make. Although I have had a few crack when I dipped it in cold water. I sold these pieces for 40 dollars. I sold about ten pieces but haven’t made any recently. I’d rather make a knife. I enjoyed making them and it was an inexpensive way to learn how to acid etch the steel.
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EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
I my mind it depends on if you're concerned about it's looks. In the form of jewelry, I would think that looks would be of paramount importance.
Jewelry is generally small in physical size, which means it calls for high layer count Damascus to have the best visual impact.... which is something that is usually NOT seen in poor quality Damascus (that's because those who produce poor quality Damascus are trying to make the most money, with the least amount of material and effort...they also don't have enough knowledge or experience to understand that anybody with the knowledge or experience can spot "junk" Damascus from a country mile away.)
The same visual factors that tip me off to a poor quality Damascus, would also make the Damascus less then optimal for jewelry. Things such as.... a "muddy" overall look to the steel, "shadows" of varying depth/consistencies between layers, "Graininess" in scattered areas of the steel. And, in general, when I see low layer counts, done by Bladesmiths/Makers that I have never heard of, it tips me off that an individual might be better off to "pass" on that material. Often times I see all, or many of those other "tip off" things in the same, low quality billet(s)/bars of Damascus.
For me it all comes down to personal integrity in my work...whether that be knives, pens, jewelry, or whatever it is I'm producing. All too often I think the thought pattern is.... "Well, it's just a pendant or piece of jewelry, so it doesn't matter." That is often the thinking of newer makers, and is somewhat natural. But in my mind, if you're experienced, or full time, you should NEVER do anything, or use an material when it comes to the items you produce....that could impact your reputation negatively.
Many things in this world can be taken from you.....HOWEVER, your integrity CANNOT be taken...... that is something YOU MUST GIVE UP FREELY...... and once you do that....there's really not much left...... at least that's MY thought pattern.
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Randy Lucius
Well-Known Member
Many things in this world can be taken from you.....HOWEVER, your integrity CANNOT be taken...... that is something YOU MUST GIVE UP FREELY...... and once you do that....there's really not much left...... at least that's MY thought pattern. _Ed Caffrey
This is probably the best statement I've ever read. It should be on a plaque in every knifemakers shop. It probably will be in mine. Thanks Ed!!
This is probably the best statement I've ever read. It should be on a plaque in every knifemakers shop. It probably will be in mine. Thanks Ed!!
Smallshop
KNIFE MAKER
I view jewelry as art...pure and simple. Just has to look pretty to the new owner....
A knife on the other hand I view through the "lens" of functionality...it should be beautiful...but since your life may depend upon it some day...it primarily must work...and in the severest condition you could be stuck in...the only way to know that would be either being stuck in a life and death situation and surviving...or not. Or...proper testing of the MAKERS TECHNIQUE by a judging panel. Everyone tests their blades in some fashion...but i wonder how many non master smiths are testing Damascus correctly?
Don't get me wrong...I love Damascus...but if I ever make a Damascus blade...it'll be 'cause I bought steel from a certified maker...Lol. Ymmv...
A knife on the other hand I view through the "lens" of functionality...it should be beautiful...but since your life may depend upon it some day...it primarily must work...and in the severest condition you could be stuck in...the only way to know that would be either being stuck in a life and death situation and surviving...or not. Or...proper testing of the MAKERS TECHNIQUE by a judging panel. Everyone tests their blades in some fashion...but i wonder how many non master smiths are testing Damascus correctly?
Don't get me wrong...I love Damascus...but if I ever make a Damascus blade...it'll be 'cause I bought steel from a certified maker...Lol. Ymmv...
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
I'm not sure there is a "correct" way..... but all the MS that I know follow pretty strict testing (that they've created) for their Damascus blades. Therein lies one of the differences between those who've achieved their MS, and the garden variety person who calls themselves a "Bladesmith".
NOW, before any hackles go up, that's not a jab at anyone who isn't an MS. Anyone who seeks and achieves the MS rating, has done so by CHOICE, sacrificed a great deal, and put in the time and effort necessary. I've heard all the excuses from "I'm not a joiner!" To "The ABS keeps raising the standards for each level/rating!" Let's just say it this way...... it's not for everyone, and leave it at that.
The fact is that anyone who has worked for, and achieved that MS , has put forth a LOT of time and effort, and has compiled a significant about of knowledge along the way..... which is often beyond that of the casual knifemaker....AND they have established a standard for their knives/work. There isn't a MS that I can image who would not do whatever is necessary to meet or exceed that standard with each and every knife they produce. (goes back to that integrity thing I mentioned earlier) What I found interesting is that the local Community College, as well as MSU (Montana State University), recognizes the ABS, and recognizes my MS rating as a Master's Degree! (I thought that was pretty cool)
Here's an example..... I was so ignorant when I went to test for my MS, that my thought pattern was..... "OK, if I can get through this, I've got it made!"..... Because, what else was there to achieve? What a knucklehead I was!
It took me about three days AFTER getting home from testing/passing in Atlanta..... I was piddling around, still putting stuff away from the trip, and still floating on cloud nine.....when I suddenly realized.... I had just established a standard for me and my knives!!! CRAP!!! What have I done!?!?
Now, ANYTHING that comes out of my shop must meet or exceed those of my MS knives!! I'm not sure that a person can experience that sort of thing without being the situation.....but it snapped me back as hard as my first day of Boot Camp!!!
OK, back to the thought at hand..... like I said, I'm not sure there is a "correct" way to test each and every Damascus blade, but I do think it's important that each Bladesmith develop and establish honest testing parameters for all their blades. As to how many non MS test their Damascus blades? Honestly I think it's a pretty small percentage. I say that mainly because over my career when I've asked others if they ever do "destructive" testing of any blades, the answer is usually... "Are you crazy!? I've spent too much time and effort on this ( insert whatever edge item they'd made here) to tear it up!" Which always lead me to believe that many makers will build knives, but never test them in any manner that is meaningful...or in other words, just assume it's good and send it on it's way. I guess that's OK if the individual is comfortable doing it that way.....but again....back to that pesky Personal Integrity thing.
springer82
Well-Known Member
Is there such a thing as a "certified" maker of damascus or would you buy the steel from a certified supplier of steel and make your own.
How many non-MS's test there damascus blades in a ABS fashion? It is probably safe to say not many. Myself I have never bent one of my damascus blades over 90°. At my level I'll keep my hard work. lol,,,,
@Ed: That is outstanding! and I do agree with it completely. With all the research and development you've done since you've got your Phd, I guess that's why we call you "Doctor Ed" {g} Allow me to say THANK YOU, I KNOW I've learned lots from you.