KMG motors?

Kevin Zito

KNIFE MAKER
Ok so I'm not quite ready to purchase a grinder yet, but I'm getting close. I'm fairly certain that I'm gonna go the KMG route. My question is concerning motors? I've noticed some people here even go as high as 5 HP... which isn't offered. So my question is: should I buy the grinder only and search for a Baldor or other type of motor? I'm not rich, but I want to buy the absolute best quality and performance available. I want something ultra smooth. Is the 3 hp variable speed (offered with the KMG) enough? Is it amazingly smooth? I'm getting just about every attachment available ... is the rotary platen attachment a must have? Thanks in advance.


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Way back, when I purchased my first KMG, I got a 1 1/2HP motor. As I gained more experience, I went to a 2HP, and after that motor went out, I did two things..... upgraded to a 3HP motor, and changed my KMG to a direct drive. I passed on the direct drive conversion information to Rob, as I feel it totally changes the personality of the machine (for the better). Now I look at it this way....

You can only get some much out of a smaller motor, and once you reach that limit, you're either stuck there, or you must upgrade (spend more money) to get any more. If you have a larger motor to begin with, you have room to "grow" into that motor.

It's really going to depend on YOU....what you want, and of course your pocketbook. I know plenty of makers who have worked their entire careers with 1 and/or 1 1/2hp motors on their grinders, and have never been disappointed.

Personally, for me, and the way I grind, the most important attachments are a flat platen, a 8-10" contact wheel, and a 3/4" small wheel. Grinders and attachments are one of those things that most makers tend to modify to best suit their personal needs/wants. When I'm "in the groove" grinding, I personally hate to take the time to unbolt an attachment, and bolt another in place. To that end I designed my own flat platen, and attachment system for the KMG tooling arm...well, more like took the idea from my old Square Wheel grinder..... my tooling arm(s) have a 3/4" friction fit hole, and all my attachments have a 3/4" pin. To change attachments I leave the tooling arm in place, take 1/2 turn on a "handle bolt", insert another attachment, tighten the "handle bolt" a 1/2 turn, tighten the belt and keep going.
http://www.caffreyknives.net/grinder_platen.html

Having every attachment is nice, but you'll quickly find you only use a few. When Rob Frink first started making the rotary platen, I was a "tester" for him. While the rotary platen has many applications, I find that mine hangs on a peg more then it ever gets used. Convex grinding and radius grinding is where it really shines, but those are also things you can do on a slack belt. The rub with attachments and starting out is that unless you have a number of attachments, you'll never know which ones are most important/most used for YOU. Once I figured out the ones I used the majority of time, I ended up selling off all the others.

Motor size is going to be strictly up you you, but for me, 3hp seems to be the "sweet spot". IMO, the most "bang for the buck" you can get with any grinder is having it setup with a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). It's one of those things that you never would know you need, until you have it, and experience it's benefits, then you'll wonder how you ever did without it.

Most makers tend to adapt grinders and attachments to the types of knives they build, and the methods they use while grinding. In other words, what works for the individual, and what the individual likes. The tough part is finding those things. In the end, you either have to buy ALL the attachments, and find out which ones suit you best, or you buy some here and there (when you can afford to), and some are "keepers" and others either hang on a peg forever, or get sold off when you find you don't use them.
 
Ed has some good advice. His knowledge of grinders is far great than mine.
With that said I have the KMG 3 speed with the 1-1/2 horse motor. To get the 2 horse option you need 240. I have 2 120 volt plugs in my garage. So I went with the 1-1/2 horse motor. My only regret was when I bought it I only purchased the flat platen. I like the machine and have no regrets. I also don't know any better. I have nothing to compare it to but it does everything I need, and never felt like it's holding me back. Just my 2 cents.
 
I would choose a grinder like the Wilmont or Polar Bear forge that is set up for direct drive(choose between 56C or 143/145TC frame motor). I have a Wilmont LB1000, basic but it has provisions for 3 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" arms so you great flexibility. one arm for platen, one arm for tool rest. I can run belts from 64" to 75" with current arm. nice to have when you find name brand belts in an odd ball length for insane cheap(69" belts for 80 cents, Tru-Grit sells 72" for $6) solid aluminum tooling arms look pretty, but thick wall steel tube will also work. If at all possible, wire your shop for 240, more VFD options and faster HT furnaces. The best deal I have seen lately is http://dealerselectric.com/FM50-202-C.asp a 2 Hp VFD for less than $200 delivered. You can safely run a 1Hp motor with a 2Hp VFD but not the reverse. If you locate the VFD above,behind, and to the side of your grinder, you shouldn't have dust issues. good luck.
I made the choice of speed over power. I make kitchen knives and rarely work with stock over 3/32" thick. My Wilmont currently mounts an 800 rpm, 1 Hp motor and a 3" drive wheel. with VFD at 50%, belts speed is about 300 fpm, no so good for hogin, but great for finishing thin stuff. 15 minutes and I can mount a 1740 rpm, 2 Hp motor with 5" drive wheel and have 2300 fpm at 100%.
 
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Ed has some good advice. His knowledge of grinders is far great than mine.
With that said I have the KMG 3 speed with the 1-1/2 horse motor. To get the 2 horse option you need 240. I have 2 120 volt plugs in my garage. So I went with the 1-1/2 horse motor. My only regret was when I bought it I only purchased the flat platen. I like the machine and have no regrets. I also don't know any better. I have nothing to compare it to but it does everything I need, and never felt like it's holding me back. Just my 2 cents.

Way back, when I purchased my first KMG, I got a 1 1/2HP motor. As I gained more experience, I went to a 2HP, and after that motor went out, I did two things..... upgraded to a 3HP motor, and changed my KMG to a direct drive. I passed on the direct drive conversion information to Rob, as I feel it totally changes the personality of the machine (for the better). Now I look at it this way....

You can only get some much out of a smaller motor, and once you reach that limit, you're either stuck there, or you must upgrade (spend more money) to get any more. If you have a larger motor to begin with, you have room to "grow" into that motor.

It's really going to depend on YOU....what you want, and of course your pocketbook. I know plenty of makers who have worked their entire careers with 1 and/or 1 1/2hp motors on their grinders, and have never been disappointed.

Personally, for me, and the way I grind, the most important attachments are a flat platen, a 8-10" contact wheel, and a 3/4" small wheel. Grinders and attachments are one of those things that most makers tend to modify to best suit their personal needs/wants. When I'm "in the groove" grinding, I personally hate to take the time to unbolt an attachment, and bolt another in place. To that end I designed my own flat platen, and attachment system for the KMG tooling arm...well, more like took the idea from my old Square Wheel grinder..... my tooling arm(s) have a 3/4" friction fit hole, and all my attachments have a 3/4" pin. To change attachments I leave the tooling arm in place, take 1/2 turn on a "handle bolt", insert another attachment, tighten the "handle bolt" a 1/2 turn, tighten the belt and keep going.
http://www.caffreyknives.net/grinder_platen.html

Having every attachment is nice, but you'll quickly find you only use a few. When Rob Frink first started making the rotary platen, I was a "tester" for him. While the rotary platen has many applications, I find that mine hangs on a peg more then it ever gets used. Convex grinding and radius grinding is where it really shines, but those are also things you can do on a slack belt. The rub with attachments and starting out is that unless you have a number of attachments, you'll never know which ones are most important/most used for YOU. Once I figured out the ones I used the majority of time, I ended up selling off all the others.

Motor size is going to be strictly up you you, but for me, 3hp seems to be the "sweet spot". IMO, the most "bang for the buck" you can get with any grinder is having it setup with a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). It's one of those things that you never would know you need, until you have it, and experience it's benefits, then you'll wonder how you ever did without it.

Most makers tend to adapt grinders and attachments to the types of knives they build, and the methods they use while grinding. In other words, what works for the individual, and what the individual likes. The tough part is finding those things. In the end, you either have to buy ALL the attachments, and find out which ones suit you best, or you buy some here and there (when you can afford to), and some are "keepers" and others either hang on a peg forever, or get sold off when you find you don't use them.

I would choose a grinder like the Wilmont or Polar Bear forge that is set up for direct drive(choose between 56C or 143/145TC frame motor). I have a Wilmont LB1000, basic but it has provisions for 3 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" arms so you great flexibility. one arm for platen, one arm for tool rest. I can run belts from 64" to 75" with current arm. nice to have when you find name brand belts in an odd ball length for insane cheap(69" belts for 80 cents, Tru-Grit sells 72" for $6) solid aluminum tooling arms look pretty, but thick wall steel tube will also work. If at all possible, wire your shop for 240, more VFD options and faster HT furnaces. The best deal I have seen lately is http://dealerselectric.com/FM50-202-C.asp a 2 Hp VFD for less than $200 delivered. You can safely run a 1Hp motor with a 2Hp VFD but not the reverse. If you locate the VFD above,behind, and to the side of your grinder, you shouldn't have dust issues. good luck.
I made the choice of speed over power. I make kitchen knives and rarely work with stock over 3/32" thick. My Wilmont currently mounts an 800 rpm, 1 Hp motor and a 3" drive wheel. with VFD at 50%, belts speed is about 300 fpm, no so good for hogin, but great for finishing thin stuff. 15 minutes and I can mount a 1740 rpm, 2 Hp motor with 5" drive wheel and have 2300 fpm at 100%.

Wow! Thanks for all the input, fellas! I'm definitely gonna do 240 in the shop for this reason and others as well.... HT oven, welding machine, and so on. I'm gonna check out these wilmonts right now! Thanks again!


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Personally, I think 2hp is more than enough for most makers (if DIRECT DRIVE), and I don't really see how anybody could ever need more than 3. If you do go with the KMG, I'd for sure do the direct drive conversion, but to be honest, there are a lot more options out there these days. KMG used to be on the top of my list for grinder recommendations when it came to "bang for the buck", but anymore, I'm not sure it's even on my list. Northridge seems to be one of the main contenders these days, as is Wilmont, Pheer, Esteem, even Oregon Blade Maker are all comparable choices, and come stock in direct drive.
I've been reading more and more reviews on recent KMG quality control and customer service that just isn't giving me warm and fuzzies on their current offerings.
 
Personally, I think 2hp is more than enough for most makers (if DIRECT DRIVE), and I don't really see how anybody could ever need more than 3. If you do go with the KMG, I'd for sure do the direct drive conversion, but to be honest, there are a lot more options out there these days. KMG used to be on the top of my list for grinder recommendations when it came to "bang for the buck", but anymore, I'm not sure it's even on my list. Northridge seems to be one of the main contenders these days, as is Wilmont, Pheer, Esteem, even Oregon Blade Maker are all comparable choices, and come stock in direct drive.
I've been reading more and more reviews on recent KMG quality control and customer service that just isn't giving me warm and fuzzies on their current offerings.

Uh oh... that's not good. Looks like I've got plenty options and tons of further research. $3000 is still safe lol


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One thing you said jumped out at me; "Amazingly Smooth". I have never heard smooth associated with a KMG. They are tough machines, but not quite as refined as the Northridge, TW-90 or Wilmont. I have a 2hp TW-90 and a 1.5 HP Burr King. I've never wanted for more horsepower out of either grinder. I have heard other people say that 2 HP is not enough on their KMG. I know some power is lost in the belt drive, but I don't know if that is the only reason.
 
Baldor are very expensive motors. I sell the TechTop cast aluminum 3 phase motors. TechTop makes the motors that Baldor sells for the European market.
Check out the Motors and VFD page on my web-site.
On my grinders page you can look into getting my DVD and build your own grinder and save a lot of money. If you don't want to go that route I suggest the GIB from www.PolarBearFoarge.com.
Let me know if I can help you. Just send me an e-mail and I will try to answer questions.
 
Uh oh... that's not good. Looks like I've got plenty options and tons of further research. $3000 is still safe lol


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Don't get me wrong, it's a serviceable machine, and plenty of guys make their living with them, but recently I seem to be reading more and more about guys having to do quite a bit of adjustments to them right out of the box, and lately I don't think I've heard any positive interactions with customer service, if it exists at all.
I took the money I would have spent on a KMG (or similiar) and built my own, much more capable and user friendly grinder, but if I were wanting to buy one already made, I'd probably go with Northridge 1st. If money were no object, it'd be Northridge with all the bells and whistles, followed by TW-90 as a second choice.

One other grinder maker I've recently been seeing pop up in discussions, but still relatively new, is Reeder Products Inc. Can't say much about them, except that they look like a pretty well thought out machine. Whether they're a better fit than the other grinders previously mentioned, I don't know, but it's worth looking at.

Using a belt/pulley/drive shaft setup is certainly going to reduce a bit of your available power as well as reduce smoothness. It's a good option in some cases, but I can't believe KMG doesn't offer a direct drive option after all these years, as it's far superior of a set up. Especially if using a VFD.
I had the shaft/pulley setup for my NWGS with a 1.5HP single phase motor, and other then the limited speed range, I didn't really feel like it was too underpowered. I didn't really bog down the motor as much as have the belts on the pulleys want to slip on me.
 
What ever you go with, you WANT!! direct drive - no if's or but's about it, direct drive ONLY with VFD and 3 ph motor. 2hp will be plenty. but the cost of a 3hp is only perhaps $50 or so more than a 2hp motor.... "IF" shopping Ironhorse. While not a Baldor, it will last a LONG time.

https://goo.gl/eDRj2q for a list of motors from Automation.
 
While the 3hp motor is not that much more expensive than the 2hp, the VFD you need is a lot more expensive.
What ever you go with, you WANT!! direct drive - no if's or but's about it, direct drive ONLY with VFD and 3 ph motor. 2hp will be plenty. but the cost of a 3hp is only perhaps $50 or so more than a 2hp motor.... "IF" shopping Ironhorse. While not a Baldor, it will last a LONG time.

https://goo.gl/eDRj2q for a list of motors from Automation.
 
If you go with one of the Chinese VFD drives and putting in a box or using filters over air intakes it's not too bad. Here's one for $110 shipped. I've been using one of them for the last 2 or 3 yrs with good success. I might not consider them for a commercial operation, but for a hobby grinder on a budget they do seem to be a good choice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130633905251?
 
Ken H I thought about using the cheaper VFDs with enclosures, etc. when I started but by the time I got the box, fans, filters, etc. I found it cheaper to get a good VFD to begin with.

Let me know if I can help you.
 
Ken H I thought about using the cheaper VFDs with enclosures, etc. when I started but by the time I got the box, fans, filters, etc. I found it cheaper to get a good VFD to begin with.

Let me know if I can help you.
Thanks Wayne! I heard that the TechTop motors are awesome, however, for the first three months or so the motors put off a strong cat urine smell??? Is this true, if so, why?

EDIT: Wait I might be thinking about a certain wood? Heck, I don't know.
 
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I did TONS do research on grinders before I bought one and what I found is that every one has it's pros and cons.

The KMG was on my short list but quickly faded when I compared it to some of the other offerings. And there are a lot more options these days then when I was looking.

I ended up getting a TW-90 and have been very happy with it. Although there are some big drawbacks ex. price, 1.25" aluminum tooling arms, the flat platen is overly complicated.

But it does A LOT right. It runs smooth, tracks great and I really like the way you can vary the belt tension. And being able to turn it 90* is a feature I'd never give up.

I opted for a 2hp motor and can't see needing anything more. But that's me.

When it comes to tools and tooling my theory is: buy the very best you possibly can. Buy once, cry once.
 
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I've been wanting one but can't afford one yet. I've done a lot of research and I think when I get one it will be the Reeder Products grinder. In the meantime I have been keeping my eyes open for a inexpensive 56C frame motor. I believe that the Reeder grinder has the most options for the money. The quality looks great? And they have many options available and can use other companies tool arms etc... And it will lay over and be a Horizontal grinder for the same money. I never have owned a 2x72 so I could be absolutely incorrect. I know this system is Aluminium I don't know if this would be an issue?
 
I've been wanting one but can't afford one yet. I've done a lot of research and I think when I get one it will be the Reeder Products grinder. In the meantime I have been keeping my eyes open for a inexpensive 56C frame motor. I believe that the Reeder grinder has the most options for the money. The quality looks great? And they have many options available and can use other companies tool arms etc... And it will lay over and be a Horizontal grinder for the same money. I never have owned a 2x72 so I could be absolutely incorrect. I know this system is Aluminium I don't know if this would be an issue?
Hmm... we will have to see what the big dogs say. I know that kmg offers an aluminum tool arm, but I would think that steel would be better due to weight and especially rigidity. But again I know nothin lol.
 
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