KITH 2019 WIP

Bruce McLeish said:
Had to do some re-inventing on the blade shape. I also learned a new lesson which is - after heat treating, if you have a small bow at the tip of the blade......do NOT put the tip into a vise and try to bend it back to straight when it's cold. Said tip will make a rather sickening sound and stay in the vise while rest of blade stays very comfortably in ones hand. This is me sharing a "learning moment" (as Ed Caffery says) as I am rather certain that I'm the only one foolish enough to pull a stunt like this.View attachment 70252
I annealed the culprit, reshaped the blade profile and started filing. Again.
.View attachment 70253If I'm not careful, Randy is going to end up with a very small neck knife!
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Hey, stuff happens. All my lessons have been learned the hard way too.
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Thanks for the comments , fellers. Makes me feel NOT quite so el-stupido! I'm thankful that none of the responses started off with the phrase "... What a dolt"!
I guess the next question is : how does one avoid the situation , or at least mitigate the problem?
 
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Bruce McLeish said:
Had to do some re-inventing on the blade shape. I also learned a new lesson which is - after heat treating, if you have a small bow at the tip of the blade......do NOT put the tip into a vise and try to bend it back to straight when it's cold. Said tip will make a rather sickening sound and stay in the vise while rest of blade stays very comfortably in ones hand. This is me sharing a "learning moment" (as Ed Caffery says) as I am rather certain that I'm the only one foolish enough to pull a stunt like this.View attachment 70252
I annealed the culprit, reshaped the blade profile and started filing. Again.
.View attachment 70253If I'm not careful, Randy is going to end up with a very small neck knife!
Click to expand...
Ouch! Good save!
 
J. Doyle said:
Learn appropriate and safer straightening techniques.
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Well , thanks for the input , John. However if I had those answers , I wouldn't have asked the question. Where , for instance , would one go to look for the appropriate and safer straightening techniques? I'm not asking for easy answers, just a point in the right direction. I'm not opposed to research and hunting for the correct answer , just a nudge in the right direction.
 
There is a small window after a quench during which you can straighten a little but as the blade cools further it becomes way more likely to break. Post quench, after the blade has cooled (assuming a fully hardened blade, i.e. not deferentially treated) then the only safe way I know is to heat it up, straighten and quench again but you may add stress doing so.. I have seen people quench and then place the blade between to aluminum (or whatever) blocks and allow it too continue cooling that way to guard against a warp. I can tell you if you lay a hot blade down on a heat sink (like an anvil) on one side it will warp as it cools. I quench (for several seconds) and then check for warps and straighten but when I feel the window has closed I put them between two one inch thick quench plates to finish cooling. If you are going for a hamon you can count the quench plates out because the clay will keep you from using them.
 
Chris Railey said:
There is a small window after a quench during which you can straighten a little but as the blade cools further it becomes way more likely to break. Post quench, after the blade has cooled (assuming a fully hardened blade, i.e. not deferentially treated) then the only safe way I know is to heat it up and quench again but you may add stress doing so.. I have seen people quench and then place the blade between to aluminum (or whatever) blocks and allow it too continue cooling that way to guard against a warp. I can tell you if you lay a hot blade down on a heat sink (like an anvil) on one side it will warp as it cools. I quench (for several seconds) and then check for warps and straighten but when I feel the window has closed I put them between two one inch thick quench plates to finish cooling. If you are going for a hamon you can count the quench plates out because the clay will keep you from using them.
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Thanks for the direction , Chris. That's going to help alot. So mu much to learn ,so little time !
 
I'm not sure where the idea that requenching a blade that has warped will somehow straighten it. Is that a 'forged in fire' thing? That usually only compounds the issue.

There are numerous ways to straighten a blade properly, none of them involve cold bending or re-quenching.
 
If you will notice, I said heat it up, STRAIGHTEN and then quench. If there is another method that involves none of the above I would very much like to learn it too...Please do not keep it a secret. Where can we go to find that info?
 
I just took 10 seconds and googled "straightening a warped knife blade" and got dozens of you tube results and forum discussions right at the top of the page.

You could research them and determine which method applies to your situation/shop tools/skill set.
 
No disrespect John, but that is exactly how I learned the ways I mentioned above and according to you there is a better (more correct way) that I did not find in my research. If you do not wish to share it that is fine but why bring it up if not to help?
 
Bruce, here is an interesting method I saw that was posted by Karl Anderson on another site. Hope it helps

There's no need to re-heat treat.
I see that so often and it's a waste of time.
Do your initial temper.
Then, with a C-clamp, clamp the blade to a bar of steel with the apex of the warp AWAY from the bar. Use a metal shim under the blade tip to create a space between the knife and the bar. Place the C-clamp on the apex of the warp, and clamp it until you actually push the apex PAST the point where the blade would be straight. So, in essence, you are pushing the warp to the OTHER side of being straight.
Give it the second temper and let it cool completely back to room temp. Make it a full two hour temper.
You may be surprsed how straight it is.
If you need to do it again, you are only doing the blade good.
I have saved MANY blades this way without going through a full re-heat treatment.
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Chris Railey said:
No disrespect John, but that is exactly how I learned the ways I mentioned above and according to you there is a better (more correct way) that I did not find in my research. If you do not wish to share it that is fine but why bring it up if not to help?
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Its not about not wanting to share. Sometimes its a time issue. It takes a lot of time to type out a how to post that so many others have already done.

I see you already found a good one by Karl. Straightening during the temper seems a lot more efficient and safer than cold bending or re heat treating and subjecting your blade to multiple quenches and a host of other issues that might go along with that.

Sometimes its worthwhile to investigate several options instead of jumping on the first thing you see then swearing by it like gospel.

If you knew about that method from Karl, then why are you still re-heat treating? Or did you just find that method by Karl moments ago?
 
J. Doyle said:
Its not about not wanting to share. Sometimes its a time issue. It takes a lot of time to type out a how to post that so many others have already done.
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#1 That is a fair point and its duly noted but that was not the context of your post.

J. Doyle said:
I see you already found a good one by Karl. Straightening during the temper seems a lot more efficient and safer than cold bending or re heat treating and subjecting your blade to multiple quenches and a host of other issues that might go along with that.
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#2 I never suggested cold bending in any way, I did suggest heating, straightening and quenching but I also mentioned it was not optimal because of stress. I mentioned that I straighten as the blade cools and use blocks in a vise after that but I also mentioned that would not work if you attempted a hamon because of the clay.

J. Doyle said:
Sometimes its worthwhile to investigate several options instead of jumping on the first thing you see then swearing by it like gospel.
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#3 I have sworn by nothing as gospel I simply tried to help the man out with methods that have worked for me after your post appeared to be nothing more than a jab at him for making the mistake in the first place. Perhaps, I read into that but I will bet you (judging by his response) he did too so I was simply trying to give a friendly response because this is the only Knife making forum I have seen which new makers can get help and not be belittled and I like to help with that.

J. Doyle said:
If you knew about that method from Karl, then why are you still re-heat treating? Or did you just find that method by Karl moments ago?
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I truly have never heard of straightening during tempering I only found that because I was looking for something I had not read or watched yet. I do not have too many warps and the ones I do experience are fixed directly after my quench.
 
Chris Railey said:
#1 That is a fair point and its duly noted but that was not the context of your post.



#2 I never suggested cold bending in any way, I did suggest heating, straightening and quenching but I also mentioned it was not optimal because of stress. I mentioned that I straighten as the blade cools and use blocks in a vise after that but I also mentioned that would not work if you attempted a hamon because of the clay.



#3 I have sworn by nothing as gospel I simply tried to help the man out with methods that have worked for me after your post appeared to be nothing more than a jab at him for making the mistake in the first place. Perhaps, I read into that but I will bet you (judging by his response) he did too so I was simply trying to give a friendly response because this is the only Knife making forum I have seen which new makers can get help and not be belittled and I like to help with that.


I truly have never heard of straightening during tempering I only found that because I was looking for something I had not read or watched yet. I do not have too many warps and the ones I do experience are fixed directly after my quench.
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Cool. Sounds like you're all squared away.
 
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