Is anybody out there

Von Gruff

KNIFE MAKER
I thought there might be a little more traffic in this section. I only found this section a short while back by seeing the designation under Calvins name and having read through the posts I wonder if there is a desire not to confront controversy might explain the sparse posting.
 
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Calvin Robinson

Moderator Christian Forum
Things seem to go in spurts here. One thing for sure, the Christian members here are NOT AFRAID to confront controversy and defend the cause of Christ.
 

Von Gruff

KNIFE MAKER
So with one reply to 50 who have read and similar response ratios on the other posts there are only a few who actually participate with many being pew warmers.
 

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
I'll only speak for myself. I'm not a pew warmer. KnifeDogs isn't church. It's a knifemaker website that has a little corner for Christian discussion.

Why not post something yourself? What is it you want to discuss? There have been 50 views because people are probably waiting to see where you're going with your post. People get tired of being baited into circular discussions. I'm not at all accusing you of that, not at all. But it happens and I myself have decided not to be drawn into it (again). Your very first post in here alludes to "confronting controversy." Not a great start. It sounds like you are spoiling for a hermaneutics fight.

Welcome to KnifeDogs. This is a very friendly bunch, one of the rare places on the interwebs where people don't come to engage in derision.
 

Von Gruff

KNIFE MAKER
It was more from some of the posts that have been made previousy that made me think that there was contentious aspect that crept in to some that caused some to read and not comment.
For myself I live in a small country town with no real outlet for christian conversation and study so I am always looking for some way to do so. Before the closest church closed due to small roll (with relocation of the congregation to another church over an hour away) My greatest joy was the morning study group where we would unpack and share as much on a subject or portion of the bible as time allowed. I miss that a great deal.
I have come to a place where I see some church teachings as being of more importance to many in the church community than the purity of the bible. My greatest desire is to understand more of Gods Word than I do and so every conversation that leads to that is valued very highly.
When I no longer had a church to attend I started to think about how people labbled themselves by the church denomination they attended and it bought to mind this can make a barrier between those who should be God centered rather than church centered. I struggled for a while about how I saw myself with no church affiliation I was cast adrift in the commonality of being a christian. While this simply means a follower of Christ, the term didn;t go far enough to fully describe how I believed and so I came to the conclusion that to acknowledge the Jewish foundation of our faith and indeed Christ, who came to correct some of the priestly practices, I have to think of myself as a christian zionist. This can cause some to shy away from conversation because of the belief structures that some churches have adopted and my fervent prayer is that I have not come to sow division but to explore how this should be leading me closer to the truths that God has laid out for us through out His Holy Word and exemplified by Christs ministry of Salvation here on earth.


Respectfully
 
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Calvin Robinson

Moderator Christian Forum
Von,
Since you have Internet access I suggest you go to ttb.org Thru the Bible ministries, a worldwide Bible teaching ministry. It a wonderful Bible teaching ministry the teaches the whole Bible.
 

One

Banned
It's my fault and I apologize...

Mr. Gruff. I hear you and feel for you. I like the "Kosher Christian" idea, :), but I got the feeling this isn't the place for controversy, progressive thinking or taboos... and that's O.K.

If you'd like to PM me, I'd be glad to listen and consider your thoughts.
 

Von Gruff

KNIFE MAKER
I dont have any intention to start (or take part in ) controversy, progressive thinking or taboos.
I simply believe that the Word of God is the Word of God and should be the base for my understanding of the guidence we are given for our daily lives that includes worship of our Creator. I spent a lot of years in different places and always joined the local church where I could but saw a great deal of church belief beign preached instead of bible belief.
I left one church because the pastor said in his sermon that it didn't matter whether the congregation believed that creation week was a series if 24 hour days or thousand year periods. The clear word of God says otherwise.

edit to add that our time zones will make our replies spaced out in any conversation. Mid day here
 
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One

Banned
Church pastors and ministers get paid to preach and teach their given bibles,… but only according to church doctrines, dogma and interpretations established by the particular church’s hierarchy. That's their jobs. Different denominations and sects have different sets of doctrines, agreed upon by their leaders. They are told in advance how their “whole bible” is supposed to read and wavering in any manner could cost them their jobs,... or worse! Many have wives, children and elders depending on them. I don‘t think anyone really likes it, but that’s just how it is. I sincerely believe they mean well and are not trying to harm anyone intentionally.


I’m sure they are all very clear on this verse and rightly so, at least that‘s been my experience.


“Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” 1 Timothy 5:8
 
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Von Gruff

KNIFE MAKER
Mathew 5:19 and Revelation 22:18-19 come to mind

Mathew 5:19
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I dont think church doctrine would override these

Edit to add.
It was the church doctrines that had become impossible to stand on that had Jesus at odds with the priests. They were making it impossible with their manmade interpretations and Jesus showed them their error on every occasion they met. This was what caused them to hate him because He stood on the pure word of God while they had it fenced arround with their laws.
 
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Calvin Robinson

Moderator Christian Forum
mathew 5:19 and revelation 22:18-19 come to mind

mathew 5:19
19 whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: But whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Revelation 22:18-19
18 for i testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, god shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, god shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I dont think church doctrine would override these

edit to add.
It was the church doctrines that had become impossible to stand on that had jesus at odds with the priests. They were making it impossible with their manmade interpretations and jesus showed them their error on every occasion they met. This was what caused them to hate him because he stood on the pure word of god while they had it fenced arround with their laws.
amen!
 

Calvin Robinson

Moderator Christian Forum
Von,
Since you are online I suggest you go to ttb.org Thru the Bible ministries. They are dedicated to teaching the whole Bible and taking it to the whole world via radio and Internet and other means also. I think you would enjoy their ministry and learn much from it.
 

Von Gruff

KNIFE MAKER
Thanks for the links, I will check them out. I do have a couple of online study links I follow but nothing quite comes up to conversational study.
 

One

Banned
The Pew study might help answer some of your questions and concerns. Some of it might be quite shocking. A lot of it really does revolve around demographics. It should be obvious that the U.S. religious landscape is in a major state of flux right now. If trends continue, 20 - 30 years from now, the "face of Christianity" will be much different than it is today,... after all the baby boomers have passed away or become "silent". Levels of education also play key roles and free college could be right around the corner.

Other than that, I think it's important when you are trying to find a church (that strengthens and supports your current beliefs), just to go into the main office and ask flat out what their doctrines are and set up an appointment to interview the pastor, minister, priest etc. Ask specific questions about things that are important to you, creation/evolution, what bible/bibles they use, how they interpret their bible/bibles, methodologies, ideologies,... where they stand on current social and civil issues etc.
 
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One

Banned
Sorry about all the edits and re-edits on that last post, just trying to clarify it a little.

I could ad that depending on some of your personal demographics and where you live, it might be very difficult to find a church that you agree with... close by.
 

One

Banned
Oh stupid me, duh :)... now I see, Mr. Gruff is from New Zealand. He'd have to check on it over there. Sorry. Although, what goes on here probably has some influence or similarities to what's going on over there.
 

Von Gruff

KNIFE MAKER
I saw that your link was US orientated so it had no specifics that held any information that was relevant for me here.

I have been looking to the letters to the churches in Revelation and see many churches today could do with a set of letters to correct their teaching as well. By the way that is a facinating study when reserch is done on the context of the times and the actual circumstances of the churches at the time, which adds many layers of meaning to what is wrtten.
 

Von Gruff

KNIFE MAKER
I have a set of verses that are the foundation of all my study and biblical coversation.

2 Timothy 3:16
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All of 2 Peter 1 but in particular v 20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Isiah 28:10
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Proverbs 3:5
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

and Proverbs 16:25
25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

By the way my name is Garry. (my schnauzer is Grauvolk Bruno von Gruff and it is a name I use on all the forums)
 

One

Banned
Garry, gathering from things you've said, (if I'm reading you right) those types of churches are still plentiful and easy to find over here right now, but it seems they may be in a decline according to the statistics. Judging from what you've said, you should fit in fine on this forum,... but there may not be much discussion or controversy with everyone in agreement.

I'm a little bit different, in the minority, so I guess I don't really fit in. I'm fine with that.

From a biblical standpoint, I favor other passages more like this.

Matthew 22:36-40

[SUP]36 [/SUP]“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and greatest commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 7


7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? [SUP]4 [/SUP]How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? [SUP]5 [/SUP]You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? [SUP]10 [/SUP]Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? [SUP]11 [/SUP]If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! [SUP]12 [/SUP]So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?[SUP]17 [/SUP]Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

[SUP]24 [/SUP]“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. [SUP]25 [/SUP]The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.[SUP]26 [/SUP]But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. [SUP]27 [/SUP]The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
[SUP]28 [/SUP]When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, [SUP]29 [/SUP]because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

Luke 17:20-21
20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God comes not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, See here! or, see there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
 
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