IKBS bearing System

[Jim Adams Customs]

Anyone using the IKBS? I ordered the stuff to do it. Any tricks or helpful hints

 

[David Broadwell]

Don't drop your bearings! Buy lots of extra balls because you're going to lose a bunch of them.

Unless they've changed the rules you will need to "register" your work with the patent holders by sending one to Dwaine Weikum for testing, and if you pass you must etch the IKBS log onto your blade. (Good luck with all that. It's been over 2 years and I still haven't heard.) It is a patented process and you don't want to violate their intellectual property.

I did make a couple of test knives and have been carrying one for the last year and a half. It works well. However, I have found something that I believe is better from a maker's perspective. Both USA Knifemakers Supply and Alpha Knife Supply sell thrust bearing sets. Tracy's is a roller bearing, Chuck's is a ball bearing. You counterbore your handle for them and set them in place. You don't have to worry about 13 loose balls per side or having to hold the blade to one side while you set the other side in place a hundred times and not drop all those balls! I've used both Tracy's and Chuck's sets and they are just great. Much more convenient, work just as well, you don't have to deal with third parties to get your approval, and no extra etched marks on your blade.

David

 

[Jim Adams Customs]

David, There is nothing there to patent. It is bearings in a race. It is not unique and it existed long before IKBS. Plus their website says nothing about it being patented or even pending patent. It is the same system used on a lazy susan and bottom bracket on a bicycle.

BTW I ordered 300 bearings. That is were the grease comes in. A Good grease won't release the bearings. You can wash the grease out with acetone and put a thinner oil on it. I need a smaller package than the packages that tracy and alpha offer.

 

[David Broadwell]

David, There is nothing there to patent. It is bearings in a race. It is not unique and it existed long before IKBS. Plus their website says nothing about it being patented or even pending patent. It is the same system used on a lazy susan and bottom bracket on a bicycle.

BTW I ordered 300 bearings. That is were the grease comes in. A Good grease won't release the bearings. You can wash the grease out with acetone and put a thinner oil on it. I need a smaller package than the packages that tracy and alpha offer.

It's more than a just ball bearings in a race, Jim. I believe it's a process patent which covers how the system is made. http://www.ikbsknifetech.com/index2.html has a contact near the bottom for licensing, so they have something going on with it. A quick google search for "IKBS patent" listed nearly 3000 references including a couple on Knife Dogs. I didn't do an exhaustive study because I don't want to use the system, but you should since you do want to use it. If they do in fact have a patent and you violate it you are opening yourself to a law suit at the worst if they choose to pursue it and at the least having the world know you've stolen their intellectual property and losing business because of it. Besides, it's just as morally wrong to use their property without permission as it would be to use the Harley-Davidson "Bar and Shield" logo, the Chevy "Bow Tie" logo, or the Spyderco hole without first getting permission from the respective companies. Do some more homework before you start making the knives. The licensing is free, but courts and lawyers and a poor reputation are not. It may save you some trouble down the road.

Good luck with the grease.

David

 

[Jim Adams Customs]

It's more than a just ball bearings in a race, Jim. I believe it's a process patent which covers how the system is made. http://www.ikbsknifetech.com/index2.html has a contact near the bottom for licensing, so they have something going on with it. A quick google search for "IKBS patent" listed nearly 3000 references including a couple on Knife Dogs. I didn't do an exhaustive study because I don't want to use the system, but you should since you do want to use it. If they do in fact have a patent and you violate it you are opening yourself to a law suit at the worst if they choose to pursue it and at the least having the world know you've stolen their intellectual property and losing business because of it. Besides, it's just as morally wrong to use their property without permission as it would be to use the Harley-Davidson "Bar and Shield" logo, the Chevy "Bow Tie" logo, or the Spyderco hole without first getting permission from the respective companies. Do some more homework before you start making the knives. The licensing is free, but courts and lawyers and a poor reputation are not. It may save you some trouble down the road.

Good luck with the grease.

David

David, I have balls! Plus my design is based on the lazy susan in my kitchen. I am not putting IKBS on my knives. Plus my design is different because I am cutting a ring groove like an o-ring groove not the pocket. So there

 

[David Broadwell]

David, I have balls! Plus my design is based on the lazy susan in my kitchen. I am not putting IKBS on my knives. Plus my design is different because I am cutting a ring groove like an o-ring groove not the pocket. So there

Well there goes that ultra family friendly aspect of KD!

You started this thread by asking specifically about the IKBS system for folding knives and stating that you had purchased all the "stuff" to make them. I answered based on that. Now you're saying you are not using IKBS, that you have a system of your own to use. So why ask about IKBS if you aren't going to use it? You already have a lazy Susan in your kitchen to use as a model. Seems like you've wasted a lot of time.

 

[Jim Adams Customs]

David, You seem upset that I am smart enough to solve a problem, that you have been working on for two years. It only took 10 hours. Just a FYI My patent lawyer called and said there is no patent for Ikoma Korth Bearing System. All in 10 hours.

If anyone knows a patent number I would love to have it.

 

[Fellhoelter]

There is no patent, but this doesn't matter.

The knife community is a small one, no need to go stepping on toes.

I was one of the 1st few to get approval for IKBS and I knew that legally, I didn't need to.
Legally I don't have to mark blades as IKBS, but I do.

Why?

These guys came up with the system, and it's what they ask for.
It's no big deal, and is easy enough to do.

And customers actually see it as a selling point.

Several of my "IKBS" knives, including my very 1st one were not made exactly like the Ikoma-Korth sytem, but they were inspired by it, so they get marked IKBS.

My ego is not so big, I can give credit where it is due.

 

[Jim Adams Customs]

Well I learned all I need to know. Thank you Gentleman.

 

[Curtiss Knives]

The deal is if you want to use a bearing system like IKBS or that is similar to IKBS, call Dwaine Weikum at EDC Knives and send him the knife to get approved for using the system and using the logo. If you come up with your own system or use Midwest Knifemaker's Supply, AKS or another production bearing, then no approval is needed. I have used them all. Jim, if you need help, just holler at me.

 

[David Broadwell]

I just found out that the IKBS system is not patented in the US. It is patent pending in Brazil.

Brian's comments explained in greater detail the moral obligation I mentioned in post #4 above. Some people will not care. One example is the knifemaker who continues to put the Harley logo into his knives - he is stealing intellectual property (a trademarked emblem) but still sells knives. Harley is not a member of our little knife community so maybe they don't care, but the Brazilians who developed IKBS are, and they are well liked and respected. So yes, you can do essentially what they are doing (little difference between a half torus shaped pocket and the IKBS shape; both are cut pockets), but if the small knife community sees it as a knock off without a license. . . well, you figure it out from there.

I believe Spyderco's patent on the round hole in the blade for one handed opening has expired and I can use it without LEGAL penalty. If I had plans to make knives with that feature I would still contact Sal Glesser for permission. You know, sort of the right thing to do.

David

 

[busted knuckles]

Chuck, at alpha knife supply sells some nice bearings in a nylon carrier for this purpose. his blade pivots are nice too, I started using them about six months ago and now use nothing else.

Here's a link to his hardware page.

http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/hardware.htm

 

[dweikum]

Don't drop your bearings! Buy lots of extra balls because you're going to lose a bunch of them.

Unless they've changed the rules you will need to "register" your work with the patent holders by sending one to Dwaine Weikum for testing, and if you pass you must etch the IKBS log onto your blade. (Good luck with all that. It's been over 2 years and I still haven't heard.) It is a patented process and you don't want to violate their intellectual property.
David

David, my sincere apologies for not making it abundantly clear that your skills as a knifemaker were never in question, and you were approved for IKBS prior to ever sending in a prototype. Regardless, my thanks for your support in this thread.

David, There is nothing there to patent. It is bearings in a race. It is not unique and it existed long before IKBS. Plus their website says nothing about it being patented or even pending patent. It is the same system used on a lazy susan and bottom bracket on a bicycle.

No, the IKBS is not patented in the US. Ikoma and Korth are largely recognized for this simple yet effective design and for bringing it to the market. In addition to Mr. Fellhoelter, other notable knifemakers use the IKBS and acknowledge it when they do...Charles Marlowe, Todd Begg, Terry Guinn, Les Voorhies, Michael Burch, Ken Onion, Tom Mayo, Tim Galyean, Kirby Lambert and others. IKBS is also in production at CRKT on Ken Onion's Ripple series.

David, I have balls! Plus my design is based on the lazy susan in my kitchen. I am not putting IKBS on my knives. Plus my design is different because I am cutting a ring groove like an o-ring groove not the pocket. So there

David, You seem upset that I am smart enough to solve a problem, that you have been working on for two years. It only took 10 hours. Just a FYI My patent lawyer called and said there is no patent for Ikoma Korth Bearing System. All in 10 hours.

Well I learned all I need to know. Thank you Gentleman.

Yea, I have as well.

Best of luck with your Lazy Susan there, Jim.

 

[BossDog]

Everyone has had their say but it's turning rude.