Yeah, I was really trying to point out the futility of the issue here. At times my wit is only understood by me. In my experience, the people who make the biggest deal out of such things have never made any knife or forged anything. They are the kind of people who will sit in the crowd at your demo and tell you how to hold a hammer. Just do what I do and invite them to place their pinky finger on the anvil and I will see if I can hit it holding the hammer my way...Just to further complicate the matter. If I forge a billet of San-Mai and then do a stock removal knife from it how should it be categorized? That knife has been through forging process and stock removal. Forge removal?