how do YOU explain to someone that a knife is worth a couple hundred dollars

EdCaffreyMS said:
I can identify with that question/feeling. One aspect that is ever present with custom knives, is the personal aspect that goes along with a "custom" knife. To a finer point, the name and reputation of the maker. While it is an intangible, in that you can't see, taste, touch, or smell it, it's the aspect that makes one knife of given materials/design more valuable than another similar knife from another maker.
This is why I feel it's of the utmost importance that when an individual begins to sell his/her knives, that ANYTHING that leaves the shop MUST be the absolute best it can be. As I often tell students, an individual can spend 20 years building a good reputation in the knife world, and IF one substandard piece is allowed to leave the shop, it can destroy that reputation.

I have seen many instances of this happen, throughout my career in knifemaking. I've seen makers who rose to prominence, only to then "rest on their laurels", sending out knives that were less than their best work, who then quickly faded out of the knife scene.
I can remember thinking when I got home after testing for, and achieving my Mastersmith rating..."I can take it easy now....I made it!"
That lasted about two days, then I realized that I had set a standard, not only for myself, but in the eyes of knife buyers, and that any knife that left my shop from that point on had to meet or exceed that standard of quality.

Another example: I once had an individual approach me at a major Knife Show. This was a fairly new maker, who's rich father has set him up a "knife shop" as a college graduation present....complete with all the latest CNC equipment.
He made hunters similar in design to mine, and I was selling mine at the time in the $400-$700 range....he was ticked off because he was asking the same for his, and nobody would buy them. There were two reasons he could not sell his knives for the same prices as I could....

1. He was an relatively unknown maker, who had not established any kind of reputation within the knife world.

2. Although his knives had great fit and finish, they looked "machine made", with none of the intrinsic value that "hands on time" and attention to those details imparts to a knife.

As far as I know, the individual is no longer a knifemaker. I can only surmise that his emphasis was on the money first, and not the overall quality/appeal of his knives to the buying public. He was not willing to invest the time or effort required to cultivate a name or reputation within the knife world. Philosophies on this aspect are as varied as knifemakers, but my philosophy is simple.... "I would rather explain price, than apologize for Quality".
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Great response Ed... definitely a lot to think about.
 
James Terrio said:
I'm not naming names, but I've seen some $300+ factory knives with fit, finish and edges most 'Dogs would laugh at. Not to mention mediocre materials and balance like a brick. Yet they sell like hotcakes and command a handsome profit in the secondary market. Your guess is as good as mine.
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Reminds me of the time I went to a guitar store and grabbed the most expensive acoustic guitar they had on their shelves. I picked it up with the expectation that it was gonna be one of the nicest playing/sounding guitars I've ever handled. It had the name (Taylor), it had the price ($5000+), and it had the materials (top quality woods, hardware, electronics, etc...).

Too bad the neck was twisted and the E string was dead nearly the entire length of the fingerboard. ;)

Just goes to show you that price does not always dictate performance.
 
Church & Son said:
I don't feed trolls, you can see them coming down the isle. Most are looking for attention and should not be there. At the local muzzle loader show I always put out one simple skinner with an outrageous price, say $2500.00 for a small antler tipped skinner. When asked why it is so expensive I say "I made it". The look on their face tells me if it is worth the time to explain the difference between the wal-mart and mine. The trolls get a disgusted look and wonder off to bother someone else.
Sometime during the day there will be a dad explaining things to his son and I'll give him that skinner with the promise to send me a pic of his first kill. I have 8 pics so far and two of those kids now make knives.
BUT, if I had to depend on the income of my creations my attitude would probably be a little more appealing.....Randy
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That's awesome.
 
Thanks Tracy, Andrew and James. I wouldn't post pics without their permission. I'll get hold of a couple that I still stay in contact with. It has been a neat way of judging your potential customers, especially when your stuff is different than the normal. I love to talk, and I love to talk knives and old guns, and I really love to talk blacksmithing and I do the shows more to be around the people of same passions than the money. .That's good because I don't sell a lot. Sometimes I "trade out" instead of "sell out". My lovely brides term for when I come home with different stuff and made no money. BUT I do have a good time......Randy
 
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J S Machine said:
I have run across this predicament many times now over the years, and I am looking for advice on how to explain.

Many people ask me what I will charge for a knife. To the average person who is not a collector or enthusiast, $20 for a knife at wal-mart is rediculous. The response of $100+ is unheard of, let alone a couple hundred..

Some people understand; but many never do, and simply walk off looking at me like I am some sort of whacko..

I'd really like to be able to explain this in a way to people to make them understand that it really is worth that much.

What are your experiences, and how do you explain it?
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John,
Hey Bro', you have to realize that you/we live in Alabama,.....there will be a few that understand the amount of work, skill and $$$ put into materials, equipment, etc. Then there will be those that will NEVER understand, pick your battles, if Bubba lives in a mobile home and has a 30,000.00 dollar bass boat parked out front, DON'T try! He'll never get it, if the individual is sincere and really wants to understand, I'd explain as much to them as I could and as simply as I could.

Being a new maker, I have gone as far as showing a guy how much money I had in materials on a knife against how much I was asking for it, he looked me dead in my eye and said, " You're only making 8.00 bucks!" I said, yes sir, but once you get the chance to use it, and get used to the performance of it, I think you'll be back and I think and Hope you'll tell your friends, as a new maker my prices are low right now, they won't be once I get my name out there, and the demand increases. That's another reason why I stick close to simple materials, I can keep my prices lower for those that don't know and be able to save up for better more exotic materials to have on hand for the future.

Also, realize the vast majority of your market WON'T be local! Alabama is a great state to live in, but like all the other places in the world there are good things about it as well as bad things about it, ignorance runs deep around here, I think it's almost a genetic predisposition!
Nothing wrong with being ignorant, BUT! There is something wrong with not wanting to learn!
That is one of the reasons I'm working on a low end line of knives, something that I won't have 40 hours of hand sanding in, but still is a higher performing blade that looks good, that I can price reasonably. I haven't found it yet, but I'd bet there will be some waterjet profiled blades as a starter, once I figure out a few designs I think would work well.

Just think about setting up at Santuck, see how many minds you can blow there!!!!
It's one of those things where you pick your battles, be as nice as possible and use small words! Rex
 
McClellan Made Blades said:
... Bubba lives in a mobile home and has a 30,000.00 dollar bass boat parked out front...
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I know that guy and several more like him! And you're right, some folks just don't get it ;) What really gets me is the fellows who live in $250,000 homes, spend $10,000 every fall to go out west and shoot an elk with a $3,000 custom rifle, and still carry a WalMart special knife :3:
 
The "Custom Handmade Knife" market as it is has it's fan base that will spend big money on quality handmade knives, if for nothing more than the respect of the skill and quality of workmanship that goes into it.

I think custom knives should be available for everyone that wants one. I recently priced a hunter to a friend, for 80.00, 1084 steel, a hamon (because I love doing them), with the wood of my choosing, which I don't buy ugly wood, so he knew he wouldn't lose on that end. I ran into him the other day and reminded him that I hadn't forgotten his knife, I've been, let's say "under the weather" lately. I also informed him that I was going to be getting started on making my own Damascus, and asked him if he'd be interested, provided I made the Damascus up to par and good enough to be used on a knife. He asked what it would cost, and I quoted him a price of 150.00 for a small hunter, it shocked me that he didn't bat an eye! And said, "Sure, I'd love that!" I also explained that once my skills and the quality of my work got better that my prices would be going up as well, which, he being smarter than your average rabbit, said "I know that". So there are those, no matter where you live, that do understand quality and the skill it takes to make a knife or anything of the sort.
Like I said, pick your battles, always be nice, even if the fella "looks" like he has a 3rd grade education, treat him like a Roads Scholar! .....but still use small words, until you know what all they understand! I was once big into archery and worked in an archery shop, an older gentleman came into the shop, dirty, worn out overalls, ratty truck that was barely alive. Said he wanted a bow and to learn how to shot...., I didn't hesitate, I explained that he may have to shot his bow at a lower draw weight due to his age, which led to the conversation of which bow would be best for the lighter draw weight, which of course was the most expensive bow in the store, this was back in 94'ish, machined aluminum riser were the future and this was the first one in the shop, and $650.00 bucks just for the bow! I told him the price of the bow and he said, "let's just see if I can shot it", being of higher confidence in my ability to teach anyone how to shot, I all but guaranteed him I could teach him to shot, so I set it up, thinking the entire time I was wasting my time, that he wouldn't be buying the bow, but with a smile on my face and a challenge in my mind, (he was in his 60's and had never drawn a bow back), I set him up and with in 3 shots got him on target, and with in 10 more shots got him grouping about a pie plate size at 20 yards. This man pulled out a wad of cash, and told me to set it up with what I thought was the best equipment necessary, I understood what he meant, and told him I had set this bow up just like mine, the price ended up being in the 700+ range and he pealed off the 100's like it was nothing. My boss came over to me and said that I handled Mr. (whatever his name was), very well, if I'd BS'd him, or treated him less than what any man should be treated, he'd walked out, then informed me that he was the largest owner of timber land in the area, just short of International Paper, he literally owned several 1000's of acres of land. He lived the way he wanted to, he wore overall's because they were comfortable, he drove a ratty old truck because he didn't want to mess up his new one, he was a down to earth man that expected to be treated like a man, not like a millionaire, just like one of the boys.

Selling handmade knives to anyone that doesn't know what it takes to make one will take some time to educate the individual, it's then up to that person to decide if it is worth the cost. Those that put themselves into positions where a knife may save their life, will easily pay for it, they understand. I always keep in mind the fella that that went rock climbing and only took his Leatherman knockoff, got his hand stuck between 2 rocks after one moved and trapped it, he ended up hacking his hand off with that cheap China made Leatherman, I keep that in mind when I'm making every knife, because if the knife I made gets put to the test of saving someone's life, I don't want it to fail.

That's a lot of typing for the subject of, "How to Sell Handmade Knives", I'd sum it up by saying expand your market, the internet is a huge beginning, and once you have some in circulation, then it may be time to advertise. You know a business plan wouldn't be a bad idea either. It's the difference between a hobby maker and someone that wants to make it a profession. Hope this wasn't too much to read, but I think I got my point across, Rex
 
In 1991 I bought a pair of Serengeti Drivers sunglasses. I paid $120.00 plus tax for them and the people with me not only were in awe of spending so much money but laughed because - they thought - they would be broken within days. I took care of them because I paid a bunch for them but I also used them because that's why I bought them. I have them today, unscratched and in perfect condition. So far my "cost" (not price - remember this) has been roughly $6.00 a year. How many people pay less than $6.00 a year for sunglasses and what do they have to show for their money now?

The same applies to knives very well. Along with handmade quality, potential appreciation and having a "one of a kind", don't forget to mention "Price versus Cost". Cost will win every time. IMHO
 
Denny Eller said:
In 1991 I bought a pair of Serengeti Drivers sunglasses. I paid $120.00 plus tax for them and the people with me not only were in awe of spending so much money but laughed because - they thought - they would be broken within days. I took care of them because I paid a bunch for them but I also used them because that's why I bought them. I have them today, unscratched and in perfect condition. So far my "cost" (not price - remember this) has been roughly $6.00 a year. How many people pay less than $6.00 a year for sunglasses and what do they have to show for their money now?

The same applies to knives very well. Along with handmade quality, potential appreciation and having a "one of a kind", don't forget to mention "Price versus Cost". Cost will win every time. IMHO
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I bet if you took the same amount of care with a $20 dollar pair of BluBlockers they would have cost even less! ;)
 
I have never sold a knife and do not feel my skills are at a level that warrant selling to the general consumer so this is just a hobby for me. All my knives get the best of my skills and attention, I finish them, admire them and then give them away. That said, I have a lot invested in tools and time(labor of love) so I often think of selling a few to offset the cost of "Stuff" that makes my knife making life easier.

Many people stop by the shop I work out of and ask about my knives(it is a steel fabrication shop where they do everythnig from custom hand rail, fabrication for structural steel erection and rebuilding of 100+ yr old decomissioned bridges) There first question is always: What does something like that cost? I tell them 3-400 and up. There first reaction is, "wow" - that is a lot for a knife. I go on to explain the time, effort and passion that goes into each piece and then suggest they look online at what "real" knife makers get for a similar product(master smiths)

I then give them a basic tour of the shop pointing out tools and their cost and say, "you can give me 300$ and I will make you a knife to your specifications(give or take a little) and you will have a lifetime of use item that can be passed down through generations. Or, you could spend around $30,000 on tools, set yourself up with a nice shop like this one, hammer away for a couple years burning through $1000.00's in propane and finally get proficient enough to produce your own $400.00 knife." At that point I think most at least understand the value at a "one off" production level. I also think that most are happy with there Chicago Cutlery they received for a wedding gift.

I am in sales as a profession and know that when you are in a specialty market you need to market to special people and there are only so many of them out there.

Bob Urban
 
Many of the finer points of Marketing, Explaining Value of hand made, Investment of tools,time and skill & reputation have already been made by the previous posters here.

I don't have have exact numbers here, But less than about 5% of the population are even going to be interested in looking at a custom as a possible purchase. Then the numbers go south from there fast!

I own a small Sharpening and Cutlery store where I make & sell my custom culinary knives.
I have people telling me what a great value there there Forshner knives are or the great deal they got on late night T.V. ads on a pile of Cr@p or they won't buy anything that doesn't say Henckels on it. (Henckels are currently the most over rated knife on the market).

Then I will have someone that truly knows quality when they see it, And Can and Will pay for it!
Those people are the market you are after.

By now we must be down to 1-3% or so? The rest might be nice friendly people? But they are not my market. So I show them a few of old stock Forshners I have or some Henckels knives I have left and don't waste my breath about custom knives.

You aren't going to sell everyone, Plus there is a envy that some people will have that you have made a living at doing something you love and charge accordingly.

Many people try to have safe,uneventful, even boring lives and are secretly jealous that you are daring to march to your drum beat.
Just smile and say thank you and move on with life!

They don't understand because they Don't want to!!!!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
A very interesting thread and I think a subject all of us have dealt with at one time or another. One of my biggest critics as for who is going to buy a custom knife costing that much was my wife. I will show her pics of a knife and tell her what it sold for and the look on her face says it all. She at first was determined that I was just throwing away money with all my new tools and supplies for knife making even though I have made a big percentage of the tools. She does know me and that I have always striven to be a perfectionist at anything I do, She also knows the kind of effort I put into each and every knife now, and has begun to support me in this new endeavor!

My second sale was to a neighbor who knows custom work and can appreciate it! He had seen a knife I had just completed and sold on Ebay, (I don't do that anymore as everybody on Ebay wants something for nothing and that knife went way too cheap)! Anyway he liked it and wanted me to make one for his son who was in Iraq at the time. I told him that it was going to be a while as I had some other things I was working on at the time. NO problem he said and wanted to pay me up front. I told him I would rather wait till I got done and he said No I have seen your work on other things and I can see by this knife I don't have anything to worry about, besides you have costs too! I asked him how he wanted the knife and he said I am going to leave that up too you!

Several months past before I got his knife and the sheath finished. The one he had looked at was a skinner and that design didn't look right for someone in the sand box. So I changed the design and the handle material. Now that I look back on it that was probably not the best knife that I could have produced but it was the best I could produce at the time.

Any way all the hard work was validated when I carried it to him and he was so astounded that he said I need to pay you some more money. No I said this is what we agreed on. He presented to his son after having an inscription engraved on it and his son has it over his fireplace now that he is back state side!

You can't beat that deer in the headlights look some will give you over prices but, sometime an explanation of how the process goes means a lot to some and as with the neighbor, he had been around when I was working on the first knife I had sold and he knew I was striving for nothing short of perfection.

I have hit a period now where I am striving for that next level and have given away a couple of knives because I realize I am still learning and am not sure I should have made those first two sales. So not making any money but have made a couple of contacts and have learned a bunch since the first couple of knives! I have learned a lot just by reading this thread!
 
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I don't ry and expain it to anyone anymore. I was at the Guild show in New Orleans as a probationary maker the first year it was there. A man walked up and ask how much one of my knives was worth and I said oh about 20 dollars. He then ask why I had it priced at 265 dollars. I told him he did not ask how much I wanted for it he ask how much it was worth. I told him worth to me would be what something is going to be used for and you can buy a 20 dollar piece of forgien made crap that would clean his deer or whatever. The difference I told him was having somthing to be proud of, he ask me about beauty and I said a knife doesn't need to be pretty to work your wife needs to be pretty. He apparently caught the meaning of what I said and about 30 minutes later he came back and bought the knife. Some people will never think that a handmade knife is worth more than a walmart knife. Some people just have poop for brains. I did not go back to the next Guild show to become a full member since I had to not sell knives to have knives to carry to the first one. I figure If I sell all I make that is all I can ask for. Maybe since I sell all my knives now I don't think you need to explain to anyone if they can;t see it, That could be a bad move on a new maker for sure so just take my words with a grain of salt.

Percy
 
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