Help wiring HT oven

[LR Adkins]

I know...it's been hashed over a hundred times on here but I can't find enough information to get my kiln to HT oven conversion wired. I have spent the last two days searching while waiting on the parts to come in. Thought I had it figured out until I got the parts today. There's more connections on the PID than I was expecting so now I'm more confused than ever. I have a PID, SSR and a TC ready to go.

Could someone please tell me where the wires go. The PID is from Auber, model SYL-2362, the SSR is a Mager, model MGR-1D4825 - 25 amp.

I'll try to get a decent diagram of the connections on here.

 

[LR Adkins]

I can't get the file on here it is too big and I don't know how to resize it.

I've seen the diagrams on here but they don't tell you what number connection to attach the wires, they just show that a wire goes to a particular component. I'm afraid of getting the wrong number on the connection and frying my control. I guess what I need is a Paint by number kind of instruction.

Any help will greatly be appreciated.

Larry

 

[LR Adkins]

will this help?

 

[BossDog]

send me the pic and i'll shrink it to post. no one can even guess with out that.

 

[LR Adkins]

I think I can get the pics up now. The first is a pic showing the numbers on the back of the PID. the second pic shows the diagram on the PID. I need to know where the wires go. Thanks

Tracy, I am lucky to get the pics up on here, I couldn't figure how to send them to you.Like I said I am plumb dumb when it comes to computers. Thanks for the offer though.

Larry

 

[JRNP]

I have found as very good diagram for this controller. I hope you all find it help full. First of all you can ignore taps 3,4,5,8,11,12,13,14,


This controller is super easy you can use any voltage to power it up so if you are using 220 for the heater than use the same 220 to power the controller. just hook up the power lines to tap 1 and 2. You are using a thermal-couple so just put the red wire on the #9 tap and the white wire on the #10 tap. The SSR input side + gets wired to the #6 tap and the - to the #7 tap if the SSR is AC then Polarity will not matter. Finally the heater will have one end connected directly to one power wire (or the neutral if using 110) and the other side gets wired to to one of the output taps on the SSR it does not matter which side The other power wire goes on the last output tap of the SSR. I would put an inline fuse before the controller with a 1 amp fuse just in case. I hope this explanation is understandable, the diagram that I attached has just a few extra details but i think they make it much more understandable.

 

[LR Adkins]

2thumbs JNRP you are the man. Your instructions are just what I needed,and I think I can follow them just fine:bud:
Thank you very much.

I was going to use 110v but I think I would be better off running a dedicated 220v line for the HT oven. I think I would get better results, more control and faster heat up.

Several people have been interested in converting a kiln to a HT oven so I thought I would make a tutorial out of this venture.

Thanks again.

Larry

 

[SteelSlaver]

What was the kiln originally wired for? If it was originally a 220v kiln and you use 110 it will be horribly slow because it will only have 1/4 the power not 1/2. If it was originally 110 and you use 220 watts will quadruple and burn out the element.

Like this.
Say you have a coil that is 3300 watts using 220. That would mean it uses 15 amps of 220 and that the coil has 14.7- ohms of resistance.
Now with a 14.7- coil (the elements resistance does not change with voltage) you have 110v/14.7 for 7.5 amps of flow. 7.5a x 110v = 825 watts or maybe a toaster.

Watts divided by volts = amps or amps x volts = watts. volts divided by resistance = amps or volts / amps = resistance

If a 3300 watt, 220 kiln had 2 1550 watt elements in series and you change them to parallel, you would have 2 14+ amp 110 circuits for a total of 30+ amps of 110v. Normal 110 wires and plugs are not this heavy.

If the kiln has a 110 element and you put 220 on it you will fry the element as A 110 circuit at 20 amps (110 max) will produce 2200 watts and need a element of 5.5 ohms. If you hook a 5.5 ohm element to a 220v supply you would get 40 amps and unless it was a very heavy element (at least 10 gauge if not 8) it would fail in short order.

So, unless you change the elements stick to the kilns original voltage.

 

[LR Adkins]

Steelslaver, Thanks for the info. The kiln is a 220 unit so I guess I'm staying with 220. :0

Larry

 

[Mike Barton]

Larry,

I rechecked the photo you posted and see you have a single pole SSR. If you are wiring the oven for 220/240V you will need another single pole SSR or one double pole SSR for safety. The controller should be able to handle an additional SSR wired in parallel without a problem. If you wire one side of the 220V to the SSR and the other directly to the coils there will still be 120V on the coils when the controller turns off waiting for a ground path to close the circuit. If you lose concentration inside the hot oven even with the controller turned off you'll have a shocking experience.

A good addition to the information you've received so far would be to add a momentary normally closed switch in line to the SSR from the controller. Mount the switch on the oven body so it will activate when you open the oven door, causing the contacts to open and turn off the SSR and the 220V feed to the coils. You should be able to make a bracket out of scrap metal and make sure the mini switch has a high enough temperature rating to be near a hot oven.

PM me if you need more details about the door interrupt switch.

 

[JRNP]

Larry,

I rechecked the photo you posted and see you have a single pole SSR. If you are wiring the oven for 220/240V you will need another single pole SSR or one double pole SSR for safety. The controller should be able to handle an additional SSR wired in parallel without a problem. If you wire one side of the 220V to the SSR and the other directly to the coils there will still be 120V on the coils when the controller turns off waiting for a ground path to close the circuit. If you lose concentration inside the hot oven even with the controller turned off you'll have a shocking experience.

A good addition to the information you've received so far would be to add a momentary normally closed switch in line to the SSR from the controller. Mount the switch on the oven body so it will activate when you open the oven door, causing the contacts to open and turn off the SSR and the 220V feed to the coils. You should be able to make a bracket out of scrap metal and make sure the mini switch has a high enough temperature rating to be near a hot oven.

PM me if you need more details about the door interrupt switch.

The door interrupt switch is a very good idea!2thumbs

Obviously this complicates your circuit but definitely +1 for this whole post. The single SSR will give you a functional oven but 2 SSR's will be much safer.

Great info from steelslaver also. I cant believe you guys make knifes, I work with techs that can't figure this stuff out but don't tell them I said that.

Safety first!

 

[Fross]

Do not forget to put an inline 1 amp fuse on one of the hot legs going into that PID, you can use a standard fast blow glass fuse and fuse holder from radioshack, this will prevent any type of surge from burning up your PID.

I will agree that a dual SSR and a door interrupt is much more safe, and if you can, do it.

 

[LR Adkins]

Thanks for the info, guys. Dang! I used to wire motorcycles all the time, why is this so hard for me to do?

I think my best bet would be to get a double pole SSR since I will have to buy another one either way. What do I look for when I order? Double pole for 220v, anything else?

More waiting to get this project started, I'm very impatient. LOL It gets me in trouble sometimes.

I was thinking of making this a tutorial so others won't have go through all of this and you guys won't have to answer the same questions a dozen times.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help, you all have been tremendous help.

Larry

 

[SteelSlaver]

The door interrupt switch is a very good idea!2thumbs

Great info from steelslaver also. I cant believe you guys make knifes, I work with techs that can't figure this stuff out but don't tell them I said that.

Safety first!

Yes on the door interrupt. On the other some of us took the long way to get to the knife making part. I studied electronics in college.

Here is a fun fact. On elements you need heavy enough wire to handle the amperage. 16 gauge say 15 amps and 14 gauge for 20 amps.
Kanthal A1
14 gauge .214 ohm per ft
15 gauge .256 ohm per ft
16 gauge .335 ohm per ft
17 gauge .330 ohm per ft

14g- 50'= 20+ amps at 220v 4400watts
25'=20+ amps at 110 2200 watts

15g- 50'=17+amps at 220v 3750 watts
25'=17+ amps at 110 1870 watts
16.5'=20 amps of 110 2200 watts


16g 50'=12+amps at 220v 2640 watts
25'=12+amps at 110 1320watts
22ft=15 amps 1650 watts


Yes it takes more of a larger diameter wire to have enough resistance to keep your amps down to a reasonable amount. The higher the amp load you want the larger and longer the wire you need. If you run too small of wire it will burn out/ For an example I could run 20 ft piece of 18 gauge(.545ohm per ft) and it would take 20 amps of 220v and make 4400 watts just like 50 ft of 14 gauge. but it would not live very long before the coil burnt out. I believe that 14 gauge is best for 20 amps and 16 for 15 amps.