getting your knives into dealers hands

Ryan Minchew

Ryan Minchew

Well-Known Member
How do you usually go about getting knives into a dealers hands? Do they see your work at shows and forums and contact you? Or do you contact them? I've never talked to one and have been curious about this. Any comments appreciated.
 
Either way, if you are interested in working with a dealer, ask them....

You are gonna need to know a few things ahead of time though

-dealer discount and amount
-when is payment going to be send / when are the knives to be sent (i.e. are you going to wait for payment to be recieved before you ship or are you gonna ship them wait for money.)
-what is your dealer gonna do to earn any discount


That's what comes to mind right off bat, I'll probably add more later. Anyone should feel free to point out the stuff I missed
 
A few kibbles..................................

Dealers are another tough one. Talk about your puzzle to put together.............wow!

Here are some things I have learned. I don't claim to know all about this topic. I'm just going to drop some kibbles on the floor and hope...............

Some dealers will approach you. Some you want to talk to, and some you don't. Just like any group of people, there are good ones and there are not so good ones.

Their first question to you is going to be how much dough $$$$$? What is your dealer price? You had better know what your answer is and you had better understand what their role is in this whole sales thing.

I have a great respect for my dealers. I love my dealers!!! For me, I have to choose to spend time with customers, or time making knives or supervising the making of knives. If I try to do it all, it don't get done. Simple as that.

Dealers provide a great service and shoulder their own share of risk. They buy a knife from you, they own it for better or for worse. They will make money or lose money. They have to deal with the marketing, the exposure to the marketplace, the customers, the phone calls, the shipping, payments, returns, carrying costs, risk of theft, and the list goes on and on. A good dealer really earns his/her money. They have a role in the distribution of knives and you really need to understand it and respect it so you also understand that the discount you give that dealer is their earnings for taking on all the risk they take on. That is risk you do not have to deal with. That is why you give them a discount.

When a dealer approaches you, you should know before hand what you are willing to discount to have them take over the risks of selling that knife. if you tell them you will discount 10 or 15%, I think they will find an excuse to walk away. That amount might be ok for a consignment or something like that. But it's not enough for a good dealer to make money.

If a dealer approaches you, it means that they think you have something that fits into their market. That's good. Ask them why they think they can sell that knife or that style of knife. Make conversation by asking all kinds of questions so you can be educated about what that dealer's customers want. Get to know them. Then find out about business details. Discounts, payments, shipping costs, any returns, warranty work, promotion and anything else you can think of. Really talk with them so they know that you have thought about this and you understand a little bit about the relationship you are thinking about.

Yes, I have avoided the discount question. I offer my dealers 40% off the list price. Many of my dealers do not get that kind of discount other places. I can do this because I planned it. I started with the price range and the knife, then worked backwards to see what I had to do to make that knife in that price range, and have both the dealer, and me, make a profit. You have to decide what you are going to do. If you plan on possibly selling to a dealer, make sure you price things right.

One of the concerns I have, and my dealers have, is that no one discounts anything or undercuts anybody. I refer customers to my dealers all the time. It's natural and normal. I will NOT undercut my dealers in price, EVER. I want them to do well. If I cut them off at the knees, then it is my own fault if I lose my good dealers. You need to decide on a price that compensates you for all the production risk AND the sales and distribution risk. This way if you sell the knife, you get paid for the risk. If the dealer sells the knife,, you share the risk and each gets paid their fair share.

If you think you have to dip into their pocket or undercut them to make money........or if they think they can control you some how...........it's not good. Keep in mind, there are risks and each gets paid accordingly.

If you approach a dealer, the first question they will ask is about the dough$$$$. The first question you should ask is if they think their customers would purchase what you make in the price range that you make it. You might be smooth enough to talk them into a knife, but if it does not sell, it's bad for everybody.

Once you get the idea that your knives could have potential in their marketplace, then talk about the business and all the other things described above. Get to know the dealer and let them get to know you. Have answers for them and show them you have thought about it a little already.

Then the moment of truth will come when you decide if you need them and they decide if they need you. If you don't BOTH feel that you need one another, it probably won't work out. If you both decide you want to move forward, then sell them knives. Do the proper paperwork. Purchase orders whenever possible. Invoices, checks, etc. Do the business part of the deal the right way so there is a paper trail. Somebody is going to forget something along the way. Be prepared and jot it down now while it is still fresh in your mind.

Then......................heavens....................FOLLOW UP!!
Check with them. Watch their site to see if the knife sells. Call the store and see if it is still on the counter. Talk to your dealers on a regular basis. Problem solve and ask them to buy another knife, or two or three. Keep your name on the front of their mind, and do it politely and with some good sense. Don't waste time.

If you screw up somehow, fix it and don't be afraid to do something nice for the dealer to compensate them for your mistake.

I could go on and on................... sorry.

Bottom line, seek out good dealers and people you feel comfortable with. Talk about things before they happen. Jot things down for those who have CRS disease (Can't Remember Stuff) or even worse, Craft disease (Can't Remember A Freaking Thing!.) Make a relationship based on mutual respect and courtesy. If you can make this happen, you will be happier because you will be able to make more knives and get better at what you do instead of having to be on the phone or at shows all the time jawing with potential customers.

I know this has been a long epistle. I hope there is something in all these words that helps.

Be good kids.............

Thanks.

Tim





 
RAGUEL3 said:
Nice work Rock
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to put that out there!2thumbs






Case in point of dropping the ball on my end with a dealer....

At my first show a dealer wanted to buy, I think 4 knives, at a discount. I gave him the discount, he paid and off he went.

He sold them on Ebay the next week.... :(

Now they where his to do with what he wanted after he paid for them. But I did not intend to give him the discount to sell them on e bay... I want a dealer to take my knives to places that I don't or can't go.

I was just glad that the knives on e bay went for about my table price! :)
 
Thanks for all the information guys. I guess I need to do more thinking on it than I orginally thought.

Question I had
Do dealers buy knives from makers sporadically say one or two every six months or do they expect to be able to snag a few every month?
 
I dont think there is a rule of thumb there. If your knives are easy to sell, they will want as many as they can get!
 
Ryan Minchew said:
Thanks for all the information guys. I guess I need to do more thinking on it than I originally thought.

Question I had
Do dealers buy knives from makers sporadically say one or two every six months or do they expect to be able to snag a few every month?
Click to expand...

Usually when a dealer works with you? That is what they do work with you.
On what you can get them and how much you can get them and when you can get it?

Hope this helps, most if not all the dealers I have talked to and dealt with, have been very helpful an easy going - no pressure at all?

Good luck,

Todd
 
There were so many things I agreed with in that post from rocksalt that I wanted to quote the whole thing, but this might be one of the most important:

One of the concerns I have, and my dealers have, is that no one discounts anything or undercuts anybody. I refer customers to my dealers all the time. It's natural and normal. I will NOT undercut my dealers in price, EVER. I want them to do well. If I cut them off at the knees, then it is my own fault if I lose my good dealers. You need to decide on a price that compensates you for all the production risk AND the sales and distribution risk. This way if you sell the knife, you get paid for the risk. If the dealer sells the knife,, you share the risk and each gets paid their fair share.
Click to expand...

I've learned a lot of things about dealers over the the years but that might be one of the most important. I used to lower my price sometimes at a show if things were slow or if someone ask if I could do any better on the price. I realized that ain't helping my dealer any and that I need to stick to my guns, I wouldn't want a dealer discounting one of my knives and undercutting me so why should I do it to them.
 
GREAT summation Tim.

Another thing to remember is that there are dealers and there are people who say they are dealers to get a discount on a knife or two.;)
 
Hi Rusty and Ryan,

Ok, I'll try to keep this as short as possible.

1) Most dealers like Most makers are part time.

2) Most dealers...are not custom knife dealers.

Custom knife dealers sell only custom knives. Why is this important to the knife maker? Because custom knife dealers are "specialists" not generalists. With the amount of custom knife makers out there it is virtually impossible to keep up with makers, trends, materials, etc.

As well, custom knife dealers do not have a "cheaper" line of knives to fall back on should the client have an issue with price point. Selling only custom knives forces custom knife dealers to have a higher degree of "product knowledge" that will allow them to better represent you and your knives.

3) Most dealers do not set up at shows....they attend shows.

If the dealer only attends the show and does not have a table. The dealer will not be displaying your knives at the show. Which means you and your knives will no be represented at the show.

4) Most dealers do have a website.

5) Some dealers do have ads in magazines which may feature one of your knives.

The average dealer discount is 25 - 30%. Given this is a healthy cut, it is incumbent upon you the maker to find out what you are getting for your 25 - 30%.

I would suggest you look at a dealer discount as part of your "advertising" budget.

Ok, so what can a dealer do to earn the discount.

If you are a new maker they will be able to get you exposure to a larger market quicker.

You may feel this is enough of a reason for the whole 25%.

However, if you have a website and set up at a show...you may feel that this is not enough.

If a dealers only contact with potential customers is a website and you have a website. Probably a 10% discount is appropriate. As you can take the additional 15% you would have given and hire someone to do SEO (Search Engine Optimization). This of course will improve your position on every search engine when someone looks for your name or knives. Consequently, they will come to your website and will be able to purchase the knife from you.

If a dealer is actually setting up at a show that you wouldn't or couldn't attend. They will be introducing your work to new potential clients. Attending one of the shows in New York (if you had to fly) could easily cost you $1,200 - $1,600. Obviously the discount you gave the dealer to have your knives on their table would amount to pennies on the dollar. Not to mention the additional 3-4 days you could have in the shop. As well you will probably at a minimum get inquires about your knives after the show if not actual orders. Remember, the dealer isn't getting any part of that sale.

Is the dealer considered an "expert" in the field? Specifically, are they sought out for their opinion on makers and their work. You will routinely see dealers interviewed in knife magazines for articles like "Hottest Makers for 2010" Hottest Up and Coming Makers, Hottest...name the type of knife, etc.

Obviously working with this type of dealer would be beneficial for introducing your work to thousands of potential clients. Again, potentially worth the full 25%...but only if they mention you.

Other intangibles would be:

The custom knife dealers ability to get you and your knives into magazines.

Do they conduct seminars for custom knife collectors at shows?

Do they promote your work on the forums?

I would think a custom knife dealer who has the ability to do all of this should probably get a 75 -80% discount. :D

Other things to consider.

If you give the dealer a 25% discount, they should be selling the knife at your price.

Many dealers will mark up the price of a knife. This can and does come back to haunt the maker. If your retail is $300 for a knife and the dealer sells it for $400. Often times when the collector finds out...they hold you responsible. Even though no one held a gun to his head to buy the knife. :D

Selling the knife at the makers price will get more of your knives into more collectors hands. This is after all the object of the exercise from a purely business perspective.

Remember this is a partnership. If you want the dealer to help you...you have to make sure they get knives.

There are many makers I had to pass on working with as, while their work was very good....they just couldn't deliver knives.

I find, for me at least. I can do the best for the makers I work with when I get their knives on a regular basis. If collectors know I have these coming in on a regular basis they will place orders.

Someone wrote earlier about undercutting the price to sell a knife. This applies to the dealer to. If the retail price is $400 and you sell it for $350...people will find out. This will annoy the collectors who previously purchased a similar knife from you. If you find out a dealer did that to you...you will be annoyed. If a dealer finds out you did that..they will be annoyed. That is not very good for a "partnership".

Im sure I'll think up some other things.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

I realize this is not the "only" way to work with a dealer.
 
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