First welding machine

opaul

opaul

KNIFE MAKER
I’d like to be able to weld some items now and then - like fire place pokers, angle iron, etc. Not any heavy fabrication.
I’m looking at this welder, but would like to hear your opinions on getting a first welder. I don’t think I want to go with a gas welder so I’m limited to wire flux units like this one.
 

Attachments

  • 625104AA-AD44-494E-9554-E39C85EFD100.jpg
    625104AA-AD44-494E-9554-E39C85EFD100.jpg
    106.5 KB · Views: 15
I’ve had a Century mig welder for probably 30 years and it’s been a great mig welder. Mine runs on gas too and the difference between flux welding and using gas is night and day. I’d get a gas welder if I were you opaul, for times when you want a really nice clean weld on something gas will do it for you.
 
bladegrinder said:
I’ve had a Century mig welder for probably 30 years and it’s been a great mig welder. Mine runs on gas too and the difference between flux welding and using gas is night and day. I’d get a gas welder if I were you opaul, for times when you want a really nice clean weld on something gas will do it for you.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I could always go with a machine that offers both options. That way I could add gas later if I needed.
 
I have a mig non-gas unit that uses flux core wire and it definitely doesn't have the cleanest welds. You can grind off the "splatters" and it's a little less trouble/expense than having gas.
 
I usually just run flux wire because most of the stuff I weld is only for structural strength like machine stands and tree stands out in the woods but there is quite a bit of splatter and it ain’t pretty. I use welders aid in a spray can that helps some with the splatter but running argon gas makes a world of difference in appearance. The weld looks perfect with no splatter. The cost of a tank is soon forgotten when you compare with or with out.
 
My suggestion would be a machine that can do both! Like someone already said the difference between Gas and Flux-core welding is night and day! There is are also a few multifunction welders out there for less than $1000! That may be something to look into. The ability to (eventually) TIG is a fantastic option!
 
I hadn't welded since junior high Industrial Arts class, but a few years ago bough a Lincoln Handy Mig which is there entry level beginner wire feed welder. It can use flux core wire for simplicity or use solid wire with Argon. So far I have only used the flux core wire mode but it has done everything I've needed. I'm surprised at the power it will put out and thickness metal it can weld. It has 4 "settings" and I typically use it on "2", occasionally "3" for something extra thick. I was even able to build a small ATV trailer with it as my first project.

I'm still a terrible welder but that's on me and not the machine.

andy
 
I’ve used flux core, and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone to use on its own. When you use a shielding gas with it though, it can make some very very good welds. If you are going with flux core wire feed, I would look for something with the capability to add a gas shield. If that isn’t an option, a stick welder might be a better choice. My flux core welder made exactly one weld, and I returned it to the store and got a stick welder. It probably would have been ok for doing sheet metal, like body work, but it wasn’t something I was happy with. YMMV.
 
I'll weigh in on this question since I've owned a number of welders and do a fair bit of general hobby related fabrication. I currently use a Miller 251 with MIG gas (Argon/C02) + Thermal Arc TIG. Any MIG welder should be able to use either flux core or solid MIG wire. The wire type should not matter, as long as the wire rollers (rollers that push the wire up the welding lead) will handle the wire size.
BTW - the ONLY reason I have flux core in my shop is to be able to get better penetration on heavy welds (say over 1/4"). But I never do that, I just turn up the heat with plain wire. As a 220v machine my 251 will handle higher amperages. Smaller 110v machines are limited in amperage and duty cycle. Flux core is too messy (weld splatter) for my general work. MIG gas isn't that expensive... in my opinion.
The question of what to buy is not unlike which grinder, heat treat oven or other key shop equipment you want to purchase. It comes down to your personal decision of level of use of the machine, money, and trade-off with welding machine quality. I've been advising a friend on what to buy and he finally pulled the trigger on a Lincoln. It's all about money, quality & features.
I started with a Miller 153 and quickly found it was too small for my projects. What I don't recommend is buying some kind of off-brand Chinesium machine that has no local service available (yes, I know some Miller / Lincoln welders are made off shore).
The Forney you referenced may serve your needs well - I'm not that familiar with it. Seems to have good reviews on Amazon.
If I were buying my first welder and didn't want to spend a lot - I'd shop Craigslist and pick up a good used Miller or Lincoln. I see a lot of MIG welders on CL at fairly heavy discounts.
While you may think you have only limited use for the welder now - I'll bet you'll find it becomes a go-to tool for making all kinds of stuff.
One other TIP while you consider the welding machine. I've shown a lot of people how to MIG weld, and here is the absolute rule - If you cannot see the weld puddle & wire you cannot make a good weld. So, I strongly recommend an electronic hood. A good quality hood is expensive. The op of the line 3M speedglass (what I use) runs around $400-500. You can get lesser expensive ones that will work just fine. Do not buy a cheap hood - you will end up frustrated with crappy welds.
 
Edwardshandmadeknives said:
I’ve used flux core, and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone to use on its own. When you use a shielding gas with it though, it can make some very very good welds. If you are going with flux core wire feed, I would look for something with the capability to add a gas shield. If that isn’t an option, a stick welder might be a better choice. My flux core welder made exactly one weld, and I returned it to the store and got a stick welder. It probably would have been ok for doing sheet metal, like body work, but it wasn’t something I was happy with. YMMV.
Click to expand...
Do you remember what brand you had?
I’m looking at the Forney reviews and majority are very positive for flux wire. Granted most of the users are hobbiest.
 
Consider PrimeWeld:

primeweld.com

Shop MIG Welders for Sale Online | PrimeWeld

MIG welders offer a range of uses from home projects to heavy-duty manufacturing jobs. Shop our selection of MIG welding machines for sale online.
primeweld.com primeweld.com

I have their TIG unit and love it. If I add a MIG unit it will be their gas unit, but they have a fluxcore unit that should fit your budget. Warranty & support (haven't needed) are better than most, and their technical manuals are great for hobbiests/casual users with tons of technique information and tips for improvements.
 
Thanks for all the sharing of knowledge! Nothing beats experience. I’ve signed up for a welding class next week. Hopefully I can experience both types of welders.
I do think a multipurpose machine would be the best investment.
 
Last edited:
Just remember that "multipurpose" machines compromise somewhere, unless you are talking high-dollar industrial machines. I'd suggest focusing on the method (MIG) that you want and get the most capable machine you can afford to do that method. There is marketing hype in welders, too.

For example, I looked really hard at multifunction machines in an effort to get an "all in one" unit. Problem was that one or more functions were short on features that I demand. Like TIG only in DC, no pulse, no HF start, only fluxcore MIG, or super shitty torches/accessories. Things like that. This is true for the combo welder/plasma machines, too. But.....if you aren't that particular in your requirements you may find the value you are looking for there.
 
opaul said:
Do you remember what brand you had?
I’m looking at the Forney reviews and majority are very positive for flux wire. Granted most of the users are hobbiest.
Click to expand...
No I don’t recall the brand. I bought it probably 25 years ago, I just remembered that I thought it sucked. Maybe they are better nowadays
 
I have a forney and it works fine. I wouldn't call what I do welding, more like "I can stick 2 pieces of metal together". I don't "weld" enough to justify a more expensive unit and I can grind off the splatters.

Once you get it, you will find reasons to make things. I made a wood burning grill from our old pressure tank, fixed my trailer, had the kids make some stuff for mom, welded my "no weld grinder", etc.
 
A few more thoughts:
- Multifunction machines may serve a number of needs. But, like someone said, mixing a bunch of different functions in a machine can complicate its use. Case in point - I purchased a Spool Gun (for welding aluminum) and perhaps used it 5 minutes in the last 10 years. I've found it's a PITA to use. I now weld aluminum with my stand alone TIG machine. And, BTW, if you want to weld aluminum, either with MIG or TIG, you'll need to have a separate Argon 100% gas supply. Spool Guns can be useful for welding things like thick gauge aluminum boats.
- Having a multi voltage machine, on the other hand, can be quite handy. If you need to take it outside your shop, you can run it on a portable generator.
- I didn't realize there are fluxcore-only machines. Personally, I wouldn't buy one - too limiting.
- The learning curve between MIG and TIG is HUGE. You'll be able to lay a decent MIG bead in a few minutes to an hour. TIG on the other hand requires coordination of both hands and your foot and has much more complicated settings on the welder. I've seen guys buy MF MIG/TIG machines and never use the TIG function. MIG welding is easier by far - but has its limitations. I find TIG most useful on small delicate welds that need precise temperature control and filler placement.
- Going to a welding class will really help sort out the questions you have and should offer some guidance on what to buy. BTW - most welders have excess machines laying around - ask about that in the welding class, you may find a bargain (and tutor).
- In your class try on a variety of welding hoods. Depending on the condition of your eyes, you may find one works better than another one. Again, a good quality hood is critical to getting a good quality weld. FWIW, I'm near sighted and have bifocals, so I use a magnifier "cheater" inside next to the electronic lens. With that I can see the edge of the puddle and the position of the wire in the puddle - all important for a good weld.
- I've surfed just about every YouTube video on welding - and, here is who I think is the "Gold Standard" for all things Welding. https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ Jody Collier is really really good at producing welding related videos and he knows what he's talking about.. There are other good videos, but that's my go-to source for welding information.
 
I have a YesWelder Tig 205DS that does stick and Tig. I wanted TIG to weld billets (damascus, san mai and mokume) without a filler rod for forge welding w/o flux. I also wanted to be able to do basic shop fabrication like welding work sticks, making up fixtures/jigs, etc. These were both equal priority for me. I figured the stick would let me do that w/o gas (simple, less cost of gas cylinders) and I could get a gas cylinder of Argon when I was ready for Tig. I saw stick was the simplest and easiest to learn, so I ignored Mig. I got the welder for under $200 (amazon coupon!), then added in a cart, welding table, welding helmet, gloves, gas cylinder, good regulator, electrodes, filler rod, etc, etc etc. I didn't go to the Mig/Stick/Tig welder because I figured the stick would get me the basic fabrication and the Tig would do with or without filler rod. The welder was a small amount of money compared to the other stuff I ended up with!

I got the welder, hooked it up 110V and tried it out after watching lots of YT videos. 7018 rods (they seemed to work well in the YT videos I saw and had a weld coating that was easy to break off and the welds looked nicer with less cleanup and less worry about moving your hand back and forth to get a nice weld) stuck horribly unless I cranked the amps up and tripped the breakers. I tried 2 different brands of rods and had difficulty with both. Welds looked OK when I got it to start, but super frustrating to try to use with the sticking issue (and the amps seeming to be lower to what is shown on the machine!) until I went to 240V! Took it over to show my buddy who was helping me build a forge since he has welding experience. He had the same issues sticking rods on 110v, but is familiar with Mig and TIG, but not stick welding. I tried his HF MIG welder and was getting good beads after a few minutes of practice and wished I got the Mig/Tig/Stick machine instead! He was using the gas Mig setup and had it pretty much dialed in (gas pressure, wire feed speed, etc), which is a big piece of the puzzle! Mig was nice because you don't have to move your hand closer to the workpiece as the stick rod burns down and your filler rod comes out on it's own, so there isn't a hard learning curve to feed a rod with an off hand or start with your hand high and bring it down to the work piece as you move it. Wish I got the Mig/Tig/Stick welder so I could use flux core for the Mig for basic welding and the Tig for other stuff. If I had tried his Mig setup before getting my welder, I would have gone with the other machine!

I tried the welder on a 240V after getting an adapter cord and checking with my electrician. We had wired a 240v outlet (3 prong dryer outlet) and had wired the ground into it, so I could use the adapter plug and still be grounded properly. 240V made a big difference with stick as did trying other electrode rods like 6011 and 6013. More splatter, but better penetration and less sticking of the electrode. So 240V made a HUGE difference for me as a newbie! The multi voltage is nice as was discussed above, but run on 240V if you can, but practice with 110V so you know how it works as well! Also, the amps on my welder seem to be lower than what it shows, so I am learning what amps for different thickness of steel and what rods, so there is a good bit of learning curve. I usually work 1/8" to 1/4" steel, so I am trying to learn the settings for those. I did some thicker stuff with electrodes like when I welded a 1/2" thick piece of plate to a 3# sledge to make a flatter (pre heated the head to soften it and let it sit on the plate to let the plate pre heat a bit) and when I made a tilting setup for my 2x72 with 1/4" plate, 1/4" tubing and 5/16" angle. I gotta redo it because I got the 1/4" plate too hot and it warped a bit. I need to learn to do some tack welds first, let cool, and then fill in smaller sections and not try to weld a 4 to 5" long section in one go! Gets too hot and then warps. Gotta redo it sooner than later so it functions better! When using stick, most of the time I don't bother to clean the weld splatter off other than wire brushing it when I am done.

With the Tig, I ran it OK on 110V with and without filler rod. I went to 240v and it went better, more consistent welds. Then I tried a stubby glass lens kit and the welds looked worse? I guess you have to adjust the gas pressure with the stubby lens kit? I went back to the ceramic cups for now and gotta find someone locally who can come by and help show me some of the stuff! My electrode is always getting covered in soot, even if I don't dip it into the weld and with running between 15-20 psi of 100% argon, so I gotta figure that out as well. There is no pre/post flow adjustment on my welder; it's at around 3- 4 seconds of post flow IIRC? The welder has a on/off foot pedal or a button on the torch for on/off, so I can't control the amps with a foot pedal. When welding up a stack of 20 quarters for mokume, I am running around 130 amps and it takes a few to several seconds to get a good puddle to push across for the first bead. The next beads go better since the stack is hot, but it's almost at welding heat when I am done with the 3rd bead! It would be nice to be able to start high and then back off with the foot pedal as the piece heats up instead of having to try to fiddle with the dial as I go. It gets very melty quick when the piece heats up! I like Tig, but there is a lot to learn!! If you want to do Tig, get a good Tig machine with the settings so you can dial it in better. If you have no interest in Tig, get a machine that will do what you want it to do and don't pay the extra for something you won't use and wish you got a better machine with settings that you will want! I learned the hard way that a cheap welder may not have settings you will want down the road and won't be as versatile as you though. Or you find more stuff you want to do with it and realize that you don't have the ability to change the settings to make it work better!

There is a lot to learn with welding. I am glad you found a local class! I wish I had taken a few classes! I need to find someone who can show me the ins and outs of the different welding methods and my equipment. Don't just have them set it up for you because you won't learn the why and how!! I don't have any desire/plans to weld aluminum, so I didn't bother looking at anything for aluminum. I wish I had gone with the Mig/Tig/Stick combo since the Mig would have been easier to use flux core for basic welding and Tig for welding up w/o a filler rod. Try out different machines if possible and see what all of those other settings do for you! Some guys love stick because no gas needed, it's simpler and easier to learn. I did better with Mig than with Stick though? I watched a lot of YT videos and reviews before going with the YesWelder, but most are from experienced guys who know what they are doing and can make the machine run well with it's limitations. For a newbie, I had a lot of questions and need to find someone locally who can give me some basics in person with my machine/setup.

Good point above on the helmet. Mine has a ton of settings and I need to learn how to adjust it better. I was welding in the evening when it was getting darker when I was first learning, but if I weld during the day, I need to adjust the helmet so I can see what I am welding better. It seems like my helmet is too dark at some times and I can see the puddle, but little around it. Tig vs Stick is different brightness, too!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top