Documenting Heat Treatment With Paragon's Bartlett Sentinel Controller

MTBob

MTBob

Well-Known Member
I recently purchased a Paragon KM18t 3 element Pro. This furnace has a Bartlett Sentinel Controller that is very easy to use. It incorporates a WiFi connection that allows access to the stored heating cycle data. As an example, here's the data output from this morning's heat treatment of some AEB-L blades. All it takes to make this graph is to login to a Bartlett IP address for the specific heating event, download the data to an Excel spreadsheet and create a graph.
After years of heat treating on a propane forge and always questioning the HT accuracy, I'm now able to control the HT cycle and create a record of what actually has happened in the process.
Data is recorded every 30 seconds. I've done some detail evaluations of what the deviations are from a given set point and it's really accurate - plus/minus a few degrees. The furnace uses 3 heating elements that minimizes the temperature deviations from front to rear when inserting blades. Data is also collected showing the power levels in amps for each element (not shown here for clarity). You can see a small example of the front to rear heating deviation at the first hold point when I inserted the blades.

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WOW - you went "hog wild" with your oven purchase. VERY NICE. I've been doing some reading about that controller - very impressive. 3 zones of control. I do like that graphing ability.

BTW, did you leave the blades in during the ramp up time from 1560°F to 1975°F?

I just noticed the blades where inserted at 1400F rather than the 1560F temp? Why? It's been my understanding it was desired a blade be in oven as little time as possible during ramping.

The recovery time for blade insertion at 1400F sure is fast at only 4 or so minutes. VERY fast recovery.

Congrats on such a nice oven with all the information available with that controller. I'm jealous ;)
 
MTBob said:
After years of heat treating on a propane forge and always questioning the HT accuracy, I'm now able to control the HT cycle and create a record of what actually has happened in the process.
Data is recorded every 30 seconds. I've done some detail evaluations of what the deviations are from a given set point and it's really accurate - plus/minus a few degrees. The furnace uses 3 heating elements that minimizes the temperature deviations from front to rear when inserting blades. Data is also collected showing the power levels in amps for each element (not shown here for clarity). You can see a small example of the front to rear heating deviation at the first hold point when I inserted the blades.
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That sound really good.

I know what you mean about unknown temps.

I often wonder if I should have started with an electric oven as a beginner. After reading on the forums it does not seem as expensive as I originally thought to run one. I would have to go 120v without getting in an electrician.

I like the info your controller gives you. It does seem a lot better than a gas forge.
 
KenH said:
WOW - you went "hog wild" with your oven purchase. VERY NICE. I've been doing some reading about that controller - very impressive. 3 zones of control. I do like that graphing ability.

BTW, did you leave the blades in during the ramp up time from 1560°F to 1975°F?

I just noticed the blades where inserted at 1400F rather than the 1560F temp? Why? It's been my understanding it was desired a blade be in oven as little time as possible during ramping.

The recovery time for blade insertion at 1400F sure is fast at only 4 or so minutes. VERY fast recovery.

Congrats on such a nice oven with all the information available with that controller. I'm jealous ;)
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For sure I'm still on a learning curve with the electric heat treating process. To answer your questions:
- There seems to be 2 schools of thought on when to put a blade in the furnace. Some believe that putting it in cold works just fine, other say wait until the furnace reaches the target temperature. I believe L. Thomas recommends waiting until the furnace reaches the target temperature. I'm inclined to follow his advice about heat treatment.
- Holding for soak times at the target temperatures poses some problems, at least with this Bartlett controller. In the case of AEB-L, that requires 2 temperatures, if I wait to insert the blade when the furnace reaches the 1st hold / equalization temperature, then the time it takes to insert the blades is taken away from the time programmed for 1st HT target hold period. So, I set an earlier hold time to give me an opportunity to take my time getting the blades inserted prior to ramping up to the 1st HT target hold period of 1560F. It can take several minutes for the oven to recover from opening the door to insert blades. This may not be the correct method, and is certainly subject further discussion.
- The result is that after the blade(s) are inserted the furnace then ramps to the 1st equalization hold period without any interruptions. From that point on the heating cycle is in automatic control, as programmed.
 
MTBob said:
I recently purchased a Paragon KM18t 3 element Pro. This furnace has a Bartlett Sentinel Controller that is very easy to use. It incorporates a WiFi connection that allows access to the stored heating cycle data. As an example, here's the data output from this morning's heat treatment of some AEB-L blades. All it takes to make this graph is to login to a Bartlett IP address for the specific heating event, download the data to an Excel spreadsheet and create a graph.
After years of heat treating on a propane forge and always questioning the HT accuracy, I'm now able to control the HT cycle and create a record of what actually has happened in the process.
Data is recorded every 30 seconds. I've done some detail evaluations of what the deviations are from a given set point and it's really accurate - plus/minus a few degrees. The furnace uses 3 heating elements that minimizes the temperature deviations from front to rear when inserting blades. Data is also collected showing the power levels in amps for each element (not shown here for clarity). You can see a small example of the front to rear heating deviation at the first hold point when I inserted the blades.

View attachment 82332
Click to expand...

So, I have that controller on my Paragon, but never bothered to look at any data. How do you get the data over wifi? I assume I turn on the oven wifi and link it to my home wifi. Is there a program to recover the data?
 
I just noticed how fast that oven gets to 1975°F - only about 36 minutes and that includes the 5 minute recovery time when blades where inserted. I wish my oven heated that fast. Now I'm REALLY jealous :)
 
CDHumiston said:
So, I have that controller on my Paragon, but never bothered to look at any data. How do you get the data over wifi? I assume I turn on the oven wifi and link it to my home wifi. Is there a program to recover the data?
Click to expand...
The WiFi connection is pretty easy once you dig into the controller steps. I'll give it a shot here:
- 1st set up your WiFi connection using the WiFi icon on the main screen and check to see if you have Ver 4.83. If not call Paragon and get them to download it to you. I'll PM the name and phone number to you. You'll need the new patch to make the data download work. You won't need a separate program, just an internet connection on a desk computer (my phone wouldn't make the connection). You'll need enter your WiFi SSID number to gain access to your router.
- 2nd, run your heat treat cycle. The furnace will store the data automatically on a rolling 10 event history, the 11th event is deleted by the system..
- 3rd, go to the WiFi connection screen and press "Export File Log". You will then see an IP address / login and an access number. After entering the IP and login code on your computer you'll be able to select and download data from any one of the last 10 heating cycles. It will be in CSV format, compatible with Excel. The data includes basic machine status & events, target temperature, thermal probe temperatures, and % of power consumed during each interval.
That's all there is to it. Once set up, it's really simple to grab the data and create what ever display you want.
BTW, the data also provides the cost of each heating cycle (after you've enter the furnace amperage and your cost of electricity). The cost for the above HT recipe was $.22 - yes, thats 22 cents! (In this case the furnace used 1.6kWhrs. My delivered electricity cost is $.14/kWhr, 1.6 x .14=.22)
 
The HT data is downloaded in a universal CVS file extension format. Excel automatically imports it. But, you will want to save it in an XLSX Excel spreadsheet file format extension to gain full use of Excel's features. I'm PM you with some details about how to create a graph from the HT data.
 
Ya'll are making me jealous - I do NOT need to spend the money for one of those controllers!! I do NOT need to spend that much money!!! I do NOT..... Really, I don't need to, but it sure would be fun :)
 
KenH said:
Ya'll are making me jealous - I do NOT need to spend the money for one of those controllers!! I do NOT need to spend that much money!!! I do NOT..... Really, I don't need to, but it sure would be fun :)
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For the past many years I've said the exact same thing, word for word. But several things changed my mind:
- It seems to me that making knives is fundamentally all about getting the metallurgy right, everything else is "mostly" window dressing - in my very humble opinion.
- I learned in the late 70's when inflation hits, owning hard tangible assets are generally good investments.
- If I was buying this furnace only for me (at my age), I wouldn't do it. This machine is a heritage acquisition that will be given to my son who has become very interested in making knives. Eventually my grandson may find an interest in the craft too. Having well built tools (like several others that I have) will help the next generation(s) discover the rewards of making things with their hands.
To be clear, this is not an endorsement for Paragon, there are certainly a number of other well built HT furnaces that would perform equally well.
 
MTBob said:
For the past many years I've said the exact same thing, word for word. But several things changed my mind:
- It seems to me that making knives is fundamentally all about getting the metallurgy right, everything else is "mostly" window dressing - in my very humble opinion.
- I learned in the late 70's when inflation hits, owning hard tangible assets are generally good investments.
- If I was buying this furnace only for me (at my age), I wouldn't do it. This machine is a heritage acquisition that will be given to my son who has become very interested in making knives. Eventually my grandson may find an interest in the craft too. Having well built tools (like several others that I have) will help the next generation(s) discover the rewards of making things with their hands.
To be clear, this is not an endorsement for Paragon, there are certainly a number of other well built HT furnaces that would perform equally well.
Click to expand...

Good post! Reason number one was why I dropped the cash. Heat treating stainless an oven is a must have...

"- It seems to me that making knives is fundamentally all about getting the metallurgy right, everything else is "mostly" window dressing - in my very humble opinion."
 
I could never get mine to hook into my WiFi. I think the signal is too weak, and I need an extender
 
MTBob said:
Having well built tools (like several others that I have) will help the next generation(s) discover the rewards of making things with their hands.
Click to expand...
Well said Bob - and let's face it, while we talk about how expensive some of these stuff is, compared to a bass boat - or hanging out in bars, our hobby/business isn't expensive at all.
 
Hey wait a minute - I NEVER EVER said that any of my tools are more important than my Lund bass boat. We gotta keep things in perspective, there are indeed a few things in life more important than shop tools...just a few. :)
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You're right Bob, when I think of a "bass boat" I tend to think of something like a 21 ft bullet with 300 hp motor hanging on back - you know, the $100K rigs, then add in a 4-wheel drive tow truck.

Your boat will catch just as many fish as the $100K rig will, and provide more enjoyment for somebody like me.
 
MTBob said:
I learned in the late 70's when inflation hits, owning hard tangible assets are generally good investments.
Click to expand...
I agree! If it weren't for the crime and drug use in my area I'd do that too. I just know that when I leave for awhile and the house sits empty I can come home to find that stuff gone.
But I choose to live in the area in order to be a part of making a difference or at least to offer the choice. So I'm content with that. I'm also content for the time being with anything I can carry out of here when I go, in addition to the skills I've learned.

Nice Lund!
 
Luke, it's really a shame that living where you do in Alaska that crime is bad. Sad to say it's similar up home where I grew up with nothing locked up, shop doors left open, and keys always left in vehicles. Now, everything has to be locked up.
 
hey bob.......that looks similar to my boat........1775 impact is the model......115 merc on the back.....where i am that is a great walleye boat......I cant wait till the ice melts on our lake to get out there fishing
 
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