Damascus and High Carbon Steels are not food safe -- aka the Jay Fisher Rabbit Hole

Goot

Goot

Well-Known Member
So I was looking at damascus billets today on a European website, and I noticed a warning on the technical sheet that said "Not for contact with food." Why? I googled around and fell into the rabbit hole that is Jay Fisher's website. He brings up a lot of points about food safety regulations, why kitchen knife features like carbon steel, damascus, roughly finished flats, and non-mirror polishing all are terrible and unsafe for the consumer. How we and fabled Japanese chefs are ignorant of the issue. He writes like an elitist asshole very often throughout his articles, but he brings up a lot of good arguments about knifemakers, our industry, our hobby, and what we all are overlooking when it comes to creating the best possible product for our customers.

This has made me really question my methods, finishing techniques, and knife steel choices. After reading through his website, what is the general consensus about him here? I think he considers himself a pariah because he mentions a lot of safety concerns that we sweep under the rug because we're too lazy to do a proper job when making blades.

There's so much information on his website that I'm not even sure what knife steels are good to use anymore.
 
I live in California where everything causes cancer...

As for knife steel, every knife my grandparents had was carbon steel. They lived to be 91 and 97 with no ill effects from their utensils.

I've made a couple of kitchen knives from carbon steel and one from Damascus. My wife doesn't like the chore of keeping them corrosion free. The last kitchen knife I made her was from AEB-L.

That article was way too big for me to read, and I wouldn't take the advice even if I did read it.

I don't sell my knives so I'm not going to start questioning my steel choices.

I did read some of the article, mostly the illnesses he states you can get. I've never had any of those...

This is a ribbit hole I will not be going down!

...and with all those pictures of his knives the site looks promotional. A way to sell his very expensive looking knives.
 
Summary: If you don't make knives like him, you're lazy and ignorant.

Food safe regulations is a real thing in professional kitchens. And like all other regulations set forth by the government, there is much hand-wringing and bureaucracy involved to find the least common denominator in the kitchen environment.

So if the 17 year old kid that never stepped in a kitchen before chooses to use a highly polished sst knife to break down a slimy, room temperature chicken before pushing the knife aside to return in a half an hour to chop the salad without so much as a cursory wide down, you might have a reduced chance of ingesting salmo-coli-chilism than if they used a deeply etched carbon steel Damascus knife, or god forbid, anything with a milled finish and embossed grooves to hold more plague. Ya know, like every Old Hickory kitchen knife ever made.

Patooey.
 
tkroenlein said:
Food safe regulations is a real thing in professional kitchens. And like all other regulations set forth by the government, there is much hand-wringing and bureaucracy involved to find the least common denominator in the kitchen environment.
Click to expand...
Yes, but don't forget that there are a lot of realities out there. ;) I know at least a few professional chefs from various cities across the country who have said that the knives aren't what the inspectors are looking at, and are using damascus knives with natural wood handles that they take care of.
 
The guy seems extremely knowledgeable and experienced, but his delivery is so poor that it makes me roll my eyes and go outside. And there's like, 500 pages of typed up articles there.
 
billyO said:
Yes, but don't forget that there are a lot of realities out there. ;) I know at least a few professional chefs from various cities across the country who have said that the knives aren't what the inspectors are looking at, and are using damascus knives with natural wood handles that they take care of.
Click to expand...
Yup. I expect it was simply good practices that spared humanity before the advent of stainless steel.
 
Goot said:
The guy seems extremely knowledgeable and experienced, but his delivery is so poor that it makes me roll my eyes and go outside. And there's like, 500 pages of typed up articles there.
Click to expand...
He does have some good info. And some that is and has been debated.
 
That argument is bullshit there might be some regulations preventing you from using them in a professional kitchen nowadays (doubt it because I know of a few chefs and sushi chefs that use carbon steel.) but it is not going to harm you at all. Absolutely ridiculous suggesting we are just too lazy carbon steel is more desirable than stainless to some people. People have been using carbon steel since we knew how to make steel. Not a thing wrong with it.
 
I wouldn't use a Jay Fisher knife if you gave one to me and then paid me. His status as a pariah is well-earned and designed to increase purchases from those who want to feel better about themselves and who don't know any better....he is the Cutco of custom knifemaking.
Do not question ANYTHING about your knifemaking on account of him.

-Mark
 
PolishAvenger said:
I wouldn't use a Jay Fisher knife if you gave one to me and then paid me. His status as a pariah is well-earned and designed to increase purchases from those who want to feel better about themselves and who don't know any better....he is the Cutco of custom knifemaking.
Do not question ANYTHING about your knifemaking on account of him.

-Mark
Click to expand...
Not that I disagree, but because I don't know anything about him or his past, why? His work looks excellent.
 
Well I guess you could say I represent this statement and should be exiled for the carbon food knives I’ve made.
“While this may make interesting entertainment, using antiquated, rusting, decomposing corroding, and bacteria-harboring rough-surfaced knives to prepare food is horribly careless, yet it is foolishly promoted by cheap and uncaring knifemakers, manufacturers, and ignorant chefs. This has got to stop!
 
Haha these comments are great and I feel the same way. But what is he wrong about? Is it that he's putting way too much emphasis on something that's not that big of a deal in order to sell his own knives? I respect the hustle at least

Edit: how does one answer a customer when they ask about why only stainless steel is considered food safe?
 
Last edited:
Goot said:
Haha these comments are great and I feel the same way. But what is he wrong about? Is it that he's putting way too much emphasis on something that's not that big of a deal in order to sell his own knives? I respect the hustle at least

Edit: how does one answer a customer when they ask about why only stainless steel is considered food safe?
Click to expand...
My only issue, since I don't personally know the guy, is how he qualifies any difference of opinion, understanding, or practice as ignorance. I got no issues with the guy thinking he's right and sticking to his guns about it. But presenting >insert any knife topic< as the one and only best way and if you're not working towards that, you're not doing the best you can, comes off as pretentious and close minded. If you're locked into anything that firmly, you might ought to check your objectivity.

It reads like one of the fidget spinner generation's rants on FB when a "new" steel comes out and aCtUaLlY everything is now superseded and nothing else has value. Tell that to the guy who survived the wagon train out west with a wrought iron knife.

The questions knifemakers need to answer is who do you want to sell knives to and for how much. There's a remarkable amount of room in this space. Some people want to connect to the heritage of making, some want art, some want the best tool for the job, and some want a combination of those things and others. Where the carbon steel kitchen knife is concerned, there are true professionals that practice food safety practically as a religion. They can use what they want, and a lot of them want pretty.
 
I’m sure Ole Hickory has stopped making carbon knives. ;)

“The Old Hickory line has been around for longer than 100 years; longer than most of our Grandfathers. It's hard to find the old timey style carbon steel kitchen knives like they had years ago. Well, Ontario Knife Company still makes these knives from high carbon steel here in the good old USA.”
 
Lol. My very first commission. A friend walks in with picture and asks if I could make him one like this with nicer handles. It wa an ole hickory butcher knife.
As far as Jay fisher. Its like the guys who claim they've got a process that makes a knife indestructible, Fishers got a gimmick that he thinks will sell his knives.
3 generation on one carbon steel knife and aint a one of us every died of, or caught food poisoning from it.
 
opaul said:
I’m sure Ole Hickory has stopped making carbon knives. ;)

“The Old Hickory line has been around for longer than 100 years; longer than most of our Grandfathers. It's hard to find the old timey style carbon steel kitchen knives like they had years ago. Well, Ontario Knife Company still makes these knives from high carbon steel here in the good old USA.”
Click to expand...
*And expanding their line and raising their prices.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top