Comparing Grinders. the 2x72 type

Which grinder

  • Beaumont KMG

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • Bader

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • Wilmont

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • Build one (post which grinder plan)

    Votes: 7 29.2%
  • Other (post which grinder)

    Votes: 7 29.2%

  • Total voters
    24

EdCaffreyMS

Forum Owner - Moderator
What Scott advises is ideal! Research is one thing, but there's nothing that will take the place of being face to face, and even maybe some "hands on". Thinking about that very thing, it's what drove me to save my pennies and buy my air hammer/replace my little giant hammers...... I got to use the air hammer at an ABS event, and was blown away by what it could do..... I would have never known without that opportunity.
 

JJB11B

Well-Known Member
What Scott advises is ideal! Research is one thing, but there's nothing that will take the place of being face to face, and even maybe some "hands on". Thinking about that very thing, it's what drove me to save my pennies and buy my air hammer/replace my little giant hammers...... I got to use the air hammer at an ABS event, and was blown away by what it could do..... I would have never known without that opportunity.
That’s the thing, the only grinders near me that I know of are owned by Bruce Bump. He uses Burr King... not something I’m terribly interested in, with all do respect lol. I’m gleaning info here and off everyone’s favorite source for reviews, YouTube.
 

scott.livesey

Dealer - Purveyor
That’s the thing, the only grinders near me that I know of are owned by Bruce Bump. He uses Burr King... not something I’m terribly interested in, with all do respect lol. I’m gleaning info here and off everyone’s favorite source for reviews, YouTube.
contact Oregon Blade Maker and see how far away he is. i would also see what grinders machine shops in area use.
remember my review of a grinder I like and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.
 

Nick Riggi

Well-Known Member
Ed and I usually agree pretty close on most things, but we do have different views on a few things. Ed looks at tooling from a commercial aspect, his grinders run 6+ days/wk compared to myself who is a hobbyist.

#1: Steel - some things do need steel, but a well designed and built grinder works good with aluminum (my opinion). There is less weight in the tooling arm (and other parts) for an old feller like myself with a bad back. Aluminum MUST have steel inserts in threaded holes that are used (clamps, etc).

#2: Ed says it all there, he has the experience and I wouldn't think of not agreeing with him.

#3: Steer clear of "non-standard" design elements. Well said and I started a thread a while back about why would anybody use an odd size tooling arm.
#4: aluminum tooling arms - I LOVE them, but remember, I'm the hobbyist, not full time like Ed. Aluminum is less expensive for me since I make my own tooling arms.

#5: Home built vs factory? I've always been a fan of home built, I enjoy building almost as much as making knives. BUT - for the full time knifemaker, I expect the time used to build is going to more than offset the money saved building. You do need a decent drill press to build a grinder. There are plenty of plans on-line for building, and perhaps the easiest to build a good quality grinder from is a modified KMG clone with direct drive. There are a few other mods that help the KMG clone work better also.

#6: Motor hp? I'm sure Ed is right for a commercial shop, but I've been using 2 hp motors for a while and can't imagine needing more hp. BUT - as Ed says, you might grown into the need for a larger motor while starting with a small motor you're limited.

#7: VFD or single speed? The ONLY single speed grinder I can imagine is a dedicated high speed grinder for 5,000 SFPM (and faster) grinding. With only 1 grinder, VFD all the way! Ed and I don't totally agree on the Chinese VFD drives. I've got 3 of them in the shop with good results and a couple more with buddies using them. For grinder use, put VFD in box or good filters over the air inlet and they work just fine for a fraction of the cost. Can't imagine one being easier to setup then the last Chinese VFD I got. It has a very good English manual with only a few pages and only 33 (??) parameters that can be changed, and only 2 or 3 of those actually need changing. For $79.50 shipped and delivered 5 days later - can't beat it. With all that said, for a commercial shop - hands down go with a good NEMA 4X rated VFD. Remember, with a Chinese VFD if it's rated for 3 hp, don't try more than 2 hp for best service.

While the above may sound like I'm not agreeing with Ed, 90% (maybe 99%) I totally agree with Ed, have enjoyed talking with him at Blade, and I have learned LOTS over the years from Ed. I really appreciate the effort Ed spends in sharing his knowledge with the rest of us mere mortals. I'm just putting forth another perspective on grinders.

Ken H>
what VFD brand did you get?
 

GeneK

KNIFE MAKER
Since this thread has been resurrected what do you guys think about Pheer Grinders?
I've had mine for over a year now, and couldn't be happier with it. When I bought it, I upgraded to a 6" drive wheel and got the best VFD they sell. Mine is 2 HP and has no problems with bogging down. Tracking couldn't be better, very little adjustment between belts or when reversing.
 

Daniel Macina

Well-Known Member
I was seriously considering getting one for a while then he raised the price and it became less attractive for me. Just from looking at them I think there’s some better options at that price point. That being said I have never actually run one so I should just keep my mouth shut
 

Chris Railey

KNIFE MAKER
I was seriously considering getting one for a while then he raised the price and it became less attractive for me. Just from looking at them I think there’s some better options at that price point. That being said I have never actually run one so I should just keep my mouth shut
Not at all Daniel I want the opinions thats why I asked. Which do you think may be a better option?
 

Daniel Macina

Well-Known Member
I PERSONALLY like the KMG. I have had the opportunity to run them and I just think there rock solid. That being said it looks like you get quite a few extras with the pheer. I’m sure you will be very happy with it. Jose seems like a great guy. Always been a pleasure to talk with him.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Daniel, when you say you like the KMG, are you referring to the new KMG? From what I've seen that is a good grinder (looking at photos), but the original KMG with the pulley setup I would pass on.
 

Daniel Macina

Well-Known Member
@KenH I am talking about the Original. While pulleys aren’t ideal it really wasn’t too bad in my opinion and it is really easy to make it direct drive. Some people say they’re too simple but I like simple I don’t really need two tool arms because I don’t use a rest and I don’t personally have a need for tilting. Everyones Grinder needs are different. If I were to buy one though the original KMG fits my grinding style.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Thanks Daniel, My first grinder was a pure KMG clone, I copied KMG design VERY close and was adamant the 3 pulley setup gave me all the speed changes I needed. I did have my motor mounted on a hinge plate to make pulley changes even easier. edit to add: I now have converted to direct drive and VFD - no comparison, MUCH better!!!

The KMG has been around a LONG time - but I really like the looks of their new KMG.
 
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C. Killgore

Well-Known Member
I'm kinda with Daniel on the simple thing. I've looked at the new KMG and TW90 and all the fancy new features.

I haven't used a tool rest on my KMG in several years. I tried early on and it just always felt like it was in my way so I got rid of it and never looked back. Give me a smooth running belt grinder with a flat platen on it, and I'm a happy camper. Now I do have a second grinder next to the KMG that always has a small wheel on it. That's about the only thing that I use other than contact idler wheels on my platen.

I just don't see me using all the fancy features these machines now offer. I do have a VFD on my KMG which I wouldn't be without. Simple is good to me.
 

Jim Levite

Well-Known Member
I own a Pheer 454 which I just put the new KMG rest on a few days ago. 122019191135.jpg122019191124.jpg122019191114.jpgOutstanding!! I had previously owned 2 original KMG'S and a TW-90. (Note: belt just thrown on for picture. No tracking wheel issues)
 

Cowcatcher

New Member
I have an Outlaw. Not much info out there but it's very well made and I haven't found any issues yet. Flat platen/slack belt attachment, small wheel attachment and 10" contact wheel.
IMG_3625.JPGIMG_3637.JPGIMG_3610.JPG
 

mike-E

Member
I'm not picking on anyone, or any grinder, but wanted to use a couple of the above images to illustrate one reason why you pay big bucks for what I call a "top end" grinder.

I've often talked about all of the wheels on a grinder being aligned correctly, both in the horizontal, and vertical planes. That is something that very few who attempt to build their own understand..... and it's often not understood by a lot of the newer commercially available machines. IF the all the wheels on a grinder are aligned correctly, the belt will be centered on ALL the wheels at the same time...... if not, then the belt will be "off center" on one of more.

Below you can see that the belt is way off to one side on the idler.....but near centered on the top wheel of the platen.... not a good thing.

View attachment 67524

Below you can see that the both the belt is closer, but not where I'd want it. Both of these situations are caused by misalignment of the wheels.

View attachment 67525
The second pic just needs tracked to the right a 1/16" or so and the belt would be centered on both wheels.
I 100% understand what you mean about how difficult it is to build a grinder that tracks perfectly. Especially if the frame is welded. The ultimate litmus test for a highly tuned grinder is being able to reverse directions without adjusting tracking. I'll try to post a video of the grinder I built for my brother to show an example.
 
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