Bringing them something they already have...

Jeremiah Rostig

Well-Known Member
Everything is Gods creation.
The world, humans, animals, nature....everything.

so due to this fact it is a contradiction that missionaries bringing the "word of God" to nature people.
looks like God has failed to do so....

Maybe somebody can explain how christians can justify this.
be it in the past or now, it is a clear evidence that christianity do not see the creation of their God....

to some of You this may look like a provocation but it is not meant like this.
I think about this fact many years and never could find a priest, a christian or another theological educated person who has an explanation which makes a real sense except.....God simply has forgotten to make it clear in every corner of his creation that it is only Jesus who can save them.

so I remain with respect for God and his creation .
Thank You
 
Jeremiah,
I am not a theologian by any means, but what do you mean by Nature people?
Laurence, I mean ethnic groups with already having existing religion, spirituality and mythology.
In German it is called "Naturvölker"- nature people-, google translates "Naturvölker" as -primitive people-, this term I think is not appropriate, for example: North American Natives, like the 5 Nations, were not primitive cultures at all, at the time when the white man in the black robe came.
so I felt it is more appropriate with the direct German translating.
 
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OK,
I really can't answer for missionaries, over the centuries some have done well, some, not so good.

Do remember that most all groups have/had a belief system prior, that;s why churches were built on top of many temples of pre existing god(s). I've seen this myself in Mexico City where my wife is from. I don't mean any disrespect, I guess I can't really answer your question if I am understanding it correctly?

Peace and good night!
 
OK,
I really can't answer for missionaries, over the centuries some have done well, some, not so good.

Do remember that most all groups have/had a belief system prior, that;s why churches were built on top of many temples of pre existing god(s). I've seen this myself in Mexico City where my wife is from. I don't mean any disrespect, I guess I can't really answer your question if I am understanding it correctly?

Peace and good night!

Laurence it seems that You understand me right, this question is not easy answered without sliding in the violent history of Christianity.
I don't want push it in that corner, this is not my intention. I think it maybe answered in the wrong interpretation of Gods message.

Thank You for Your contribution on this subject.
 
I am not a theologan but it seems that christianity is to believe that god, is only thrue form of a religious diety. All other religions have their beliefs as to what god is in their eyes. Christianity had its share of violence in history and has constantly battled muslims for as long as time has been recorded by christians.
The druids/wicca,norse,hindu,pacific islanders and native americans believed in multiple dieties as their religion. It was the duty of a missionary to show them how the belief of a one true god was the correct thought process. It is not my intention to point out the negative light or the conflicts that followed the attempts to convert savages or non believers to the only accepted religion in the missionaries eyes. It is merely my opine and observations of past events and discussions with others who have different religions. It is my take on being a christian it is to love thy neighbor no matter how they differ from my own belief.
 
Well I'm not real good at this stuff but I will take a stab. This is a hard question and I don't think anyone has all the answers, but here is my opinion. I'm going to jump around a bit so hang with me and hopefully this makes some sense.

First thing everybody came from the same natural life more or less, the only difference is environment and development. A bronze age settlement on Salisbury Planes would be just as natural as an Apache tribe on the Western plains. Not only would these people groups both be similar in dependence on nature they would also have a pretty similar lifestyle. How and why they developed differently is beyond me, but is somewhat dependant on a nomadic people and a agrarian society (Sorry off topic a bit). In a nutshell the natural peoples your talking about are really similar to the societies of today, just add time, environment and development. (Some Sociologist is going to nail me on this)

Back in the beginning Man had a perfect relationship with God and nature however man screwed it up. Once sin entered the world the whole order of things was messed up, we are talking about the worst disaster ever. God cursed the ground so that man should be in a constant fight for his crops (growing up on a farm I can attest to that) From this point onward history is full of people trying to into Gods good grace by works, worship, and sacrifice. To face facts the human race is prone to commit some pretty horrible acts in the pursuit of God, fame, power and fortune. God sent his son Jesus to save the world by his sacrifice on the cross. Jesus died after only three years of preaching, not a long time. There was no internet, Tv, radio, etc, however Jesus made a huge impact globally. Jesus gave some very specific commands to his followers one of which was the great commission. Those who follow Jesus are called to preach his message to the whole world. Christians have faced death and violence in order to bring this message to all people groups. Even today a Christian is more likely to face martyrdom (Death for their faith) today then ever before. The lack of Christian representation is really Christians failing to fulfill our obligations.

To back up a bit the first Christians did not have a Bible, fancy universities or degrees in ministry (Not that these are bad things) they were people who Jesus said "worshiped in spirit and truth" These people believed that Jesus was the son of God and died for their sin. They died to their old life and started a new one following Jesus as an example of how to live (Nutshell stuff). So the message of Jesus can be pretty simple.

Tough question Jeremiah I hope I have at least given some things to consider about your question.
 
I am not a theologan but it seems that christianity is to believe that god, is only thrue form of a religious diety. All other religions have their beliefs as to what god is in their eyes. Christianity had its share of violence in history and has constantly battled muslims for as long as time has been recorded by christians.
The druids/wicca,norse,hindu,pacific islanders and native americans believed in multiple dieties as their religion. It was the duty of a missionary to show them how the belief of a one true god was the correct thought process. It is not my intention to point out the negative light or the conflicts that followed the attempts to convert savages or non believers to the only accepted religion in the missionaries eyes. It is merely my opine and observations of past events and discussions with others who have different religions. It is my take on being a christian it is to love thy neighbor no matter how they differ from my own belief.
So it is my take as a believer, as it is your's as a Christian.
Thank You wall e.
 
Well I'm not real good at this stuff but I will take a stab. This is a hard question and I don't think anyone has all the answers, but here is my opinion. I'm going to jump around a bit so hang with me and hopefully this makes some sense.

First thing everybody came from the same natural life more or less, the only difference is environment and development. A bronze age settlement on Salisbury Planes would be just as natural as an Apache tribe on the Western plains. Not only would these people groups both be similar in dependence on nature they would also have a pretty similar lifestyle. How and why they developed differently is beyond me, but is somewhat dependant on a nomadic people and a agrarian society (Sorry off topic a bit). In a nutshell the natural peoples your talking about are really similar to the societies of today, just add time, environment and development. (Some Sociologist is going to nail me on this)

Back in the beginning Man had a perfect relationship with God and nature however man screwed it up. Once sin entered the world the whole order of things was messed up, we are talking about the worst disaster ever. God cursed the ground so that man should be in a constant fight for his crops (growing up on a farm I can attest to that) From this point onward history is full of people trying to into Gods good grace by works, worship, and sacrifice. To face facts the human race is prone to commit some pretty horrible acts in the pursuit of God, fame, power and fortune. God sent his son Jesus to save the world by his sacrifice on the cross. Jesus died after only three years of preaching, not a long time. There was no internet, Tv, radio, etc, however Jesus made a huge impact globally. Jesus gave some very specific commands to his followers one of which was the great commission. Those who follow Jesus are called to preach his message to the whole world. Christians have faced death and violence in order to bring this message to all people groups. Even today a Christian is more likely to face martyrdom (Death for their faith) today then ever before. The lack of Christian representation is really Christians failing to fulfill our obligations.

To back up a bit the first Christians did not have a Bible, fancy universities or degrees in ministry (Not that these are bad things) they were people who Jesus said "worshiped in spirit and truth" These people believed that Jesus was the son of God and died for their sin. They died to their old life and started a new one following Jesus as an example of how to live (Nutshell stuff). So the message of Jesus can be pretty simple.

Tough question Jeremiah I hope I have at least given some things to consider about your question.

Brad, there are a some very interesting points of view in your contribution.
In fact I have, over the years, my question reconsidered many times and yes, the message might be pretty simple.
Buddhism theologically not defined as a religion, it is a way of live.And it says the same: everything is pretty simple, do not search to far, the "key" is right next to it.
So I think I see the guiding lines, the similarities, giving the trace of an idea what God is really all about:
not a Religion it is a way of live, a way to live, a super-ultra- fine connection, like an over dimensional energy net all over the whole world, through time, space and infinity....
It finds in Buddhism its most simplest explanation, pretty simple as Jesus and Mitra(s) were born at the same date, as the Islam is right, that it is for Man not possible to create a picture of God because of his divinity...as the Islam is wrong to prohibit this challenge to an artist...
so this even eliminates "the first sin of man " i will not call it an apple, nor will blame women to bring men into temptation, as far as it goes in history, men never had to be pushed, or forced to do the "Sin", the male part was the first sinner if! there is one first sin and here it goes on and on....
I see one evidence after another that it is all the same and so subtle and distinctive, it is All, One, Him and The Same.
No one can imagine divinity.
we have not the potential to use 100% of our brain....as far as I know it is about 10% with humans and with Dolphins it is about 20%( tell me please if I am wrong).
To me, The Word of God comes to a complete new interpretation.It makes sense to me that it is The Will of God , to look as his words from as many different points of views as possible....that cannot be so much with 10%....so to me there is another one:
The Patience of God must be endless like space.

Thanks for Your contribution Brad, I appreciate it very much!
 
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Funny thing about Christianity is it can be as complicated or as simple as you make it. I forget the name of the theologian but when he was asked "What is the greatest truth of the Bible?" he responded "Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so" (An old Sunday School song)

If your interested in delving deeper into this Jeremiah I can see if I can find some links for a few interesting videos.
 
Everything is Gods creation.
The world, humans, animals, nature....everything.

so due to this fact it is a contradiction that missionaries bringing the "word of God" to nature people.
looks like God has failed to do so....

Maybe somebody can explain how christians can justify this.
be it in the past or now, it is a clear evidence that christianity do not see the creation of their God....

to some of You this may look like a provocation but it is not meant like this.
I think about this fact many years and never could find a priest, a christian or another theological educated person who has an explanation which makes a real sense except.....God simply has forgotten to make it clear in every corner of his creation that it is only Jesus who can save them.

so I remain with respect for God and his creation .
Thank You


Jeremiah,
You say that this is not a provocation so I will take your word for that.
I would like to respond and answer your questions and criticisms,but I don't understand most of what you are saying or asking.
I can assure you that God hasn't forgotten or failed to do anything. I'm happy to see that you respect God and his creation.
Are you a Christian?
 
I am not a theologan but it seems that christianity is to believe that god, is only thrue form of a religious diety. All other religions have their beliefs as to what god is in their eyes. Christianity had its share of violence in history and has constantly battled muslims for as long as time has been recorded by christians.
The druids/wicca,norse,hindu,pacific islanders and native americans believed in multiple dieties as their religion. It was the duty of a missionary to show them how the belief of a one true god was the correct thought process. It is not my intention to point out the negative light or the conflicts that followed the attempts to convert savages or non believers to the only accepted religion in the missionaries eyes. It is merely my opine and observations of past events and discussions with others who have different religions. It is my take on being a christian it is to love thy neighbor no matter how they differ from my own belief.

Walt,
Are you a Christian?
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that you are asking that since God created everything why do people need to be told about him. All tribes, cultures, ethnic groups etc have some sort of story of how everything was created, most believe in a single God or spirit creating everything, I believe it is in human nature to look for a God of some sort. unreached peoples simply have not been told of the salvation of Jesus Christ.
 
I may be under thinking this, but it seems to me that the great commission is to take the Good News of Jesus to all the world.
That is what Christ was doing, and what He asked His disciples to do.
Good enough for me!
- J
 
God gave us free will. We could have been created as robots, where we stopped at 11:45 every day and worshipped. But He instead gave us a choice. Isn't part of what we are called to do as Christians is to introduce others to it?
 
Interesting to me is that even when avowed atheists or some other non believers face great adversity or death they cry "Oh God, help me."
 
Funny thing about Christianity is it can be as complicated or as simple as you make it. I forget the name of the theologian but when he was asked "What is the greatest truth of the Bible?" he responded "Jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so" (An old Sunday School song)

If your interested in delving deeper into this Jeremiah I can see if I can find some links for a few interesting videos.
yes, I am very interested Brad, Thanks.
 
To answer some of the questions you have raised, I present to you the sermon from Mars Hill:

"So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects. For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”" Acts 17:22-31

The bad news is that mankind has been corrupted by sin. We do not have the ability to make ourselves righteous, we are slaves to sin. Justice requires that all sin must be paid for, and that payment is death. God is just, the penalty for sin must be met.

The good news is that the penalty for all sin has been paid by Christ Jesus who died in our place, satisfying all claims of justice, and through him salvation is available to any who will believe it. This is a free gift of God because of his amazing love for us. God is just, but he is also good. This is the gospel, the heart of christianity, the word of reconciliation.

"namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 1 Corinthians 5:19-21
 
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Jeremiah,
You say that this is not a provocation so I will take your word for that.
I would like to respond and answer your questions and criticisms,but I don't understand most of what you are saying or asking.
I can assure you that God hasn't forgotten or failed to do anything. I'm happy to see that you respect God and his creation.
Are you a Christian?
Calvin, Thank You for believing me I am not into a provokation....how could I....?
I tried very hard to find words which do not trigger displeasure, like Brad spent an amount of time trying to dive into that topic.
How can Christians assure God with his Power has not reached the last corner of his creation?Do they think God let them complete the creation?
I dont know how to make this understand to You without repeating in different terms....just open your heart and mind for me and the topic like I open my heart and mind to look at it without pulling the violent History and reputation of Christainity into it.No disrespect, no affront, nothing like this, Calvin.
I believe in His Creation.
No, I am not a Christian.
Thank You, Calvin.
 
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