ABS test blade
- Thread starter ArtinNC
- Start date
B
Brad Singley
Guest
I assume you are referring to the JS test. Most all applicants use 5160 for this test. It is in my opinion the most forgiving steel for this application. It's what I used for my test in 07. It can be done with any of the common steels but you will have to dial in your heat treat, something you shoud be doing now anyways.
Ed Caffrey has done a excellent write up on passing the test with 5160, I would highly suggest reading it over on his website.
Brad
Ed Caffrey has done a excellent write up on passing the test with 5160, I would highly suggest reading it over on his website.
Brad
D.Sylvester
Member
i used 5160 and ED's write up all went well
Dave
Dave
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Wick's comments open up a chance to help folks who are planning on testing! He is dead on that the heat treat I have written up for a test blade MAY not be the best for every knife made of 5160.
I spent a great deal of time at the recent Blade show, talking with folks who are hoping to test for their JS rating in the future. Many people have heard me say this before, but it's worth repeating....
When your build your performance test blade, what you have to remember is that the performance tests are not so much about the knife, as about the knifemaker. The ABS performance test(s) is about the maker's knowledge. Does the maker understand edge/blade geometry to the point were he/she can create a geometry that will cut through the free hanging rope, but yet be able to with stand the abuse of chopping through two 2x4s without dulling or deformation?
Does the maker know/understand how to differentially heat treat, and the ratios of hard to soft required for the specific test knife they have built?
The physical acts of accomplishing the test steps are just a way of testing the knowledge a person possesses.
Likewise, you have to think about what your doing when building your 5 presentation knives. It's just like building 5 custom order knives. There are specific attributes that a customer would want, and in this case the ABS judging panel is your customer. It pays to know what those customers want.
All too often people think the ABS is trying to tell them HOW they have to build their knives....not true! The ABS is telling you what they want to see in your presentation knives.....and they want to see each of those attributes for a reason....to see if you have the knowledge and understanding that warrants awarding you with a JS rating.
Just ask the folks who made their JS rating this year....they are your best source for information on what to expect. People like Bing, Doug Campbell, Jim Poling....and the others that I can't recall at the moment.
I spent a great deal of time at the recent Blade show, talking with folks who are hoping to test for their JS rating in the future. Many people have heard me say this before, but it's worth repeating....
When your build your performance test blade, what you have to remember is that the performance tests are not so much about the knife, as about the knifemaker. The ABS performance test(s) is about the maker's knowledge. Does the maker understand edge/blade geometry to the point were he/she can create a geometry that will cut through the free hanging rope, but yet be able to with stand the abuse of chopping through two 2x4s without dulling or deformation?
Does the maker know/understand how to differentially heat treat, and the ratios of hard to soft required for the specific test knife they have built?
The physical acts of accomplishing the test steps are just a way of testing the knowledge a person possesses.
Likewise, you have to think about what your doing when building your 5 presentation knives. It's just like building 5 custom order knives. There are specific attributes that a customer would want, and in this case the ABS judging panel is your customer. It pays to know what those customers want.
All too often people think the ABS is trying to tell them HOW they have to build their knives....not true! The ABS is telling you what they want to see in your presentation knives.....and they want to see each of those attributes for a reason....to see if you have the knowledge and understanding that warrants awarding you with a JS rating.
Just ask the folks who made their JS rating this year....they are your best source for information on what to expect. People like Bing, Doug Campbell, Jim Poling....and the others that I can't recall at the moment.
Fletch Helical
Well-Known Member
As a very new maker I'd like to ask a question: Where does one go to find this type of information? Is it just something that is acquired after making "x" number of knives through trial and error? Or is there a good source to go to to read up on these kind of things?
Thanks.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
It's a little of both....experience and seeking out/understanding the information provided are both key to completing the process successfully.
There is a three year wait period from the time you join the ABS until you are eligible to test for JS (if you attend the ABS Beginning Bladesmithing course at the ABS school, that time frame is reduced to two years), and once you achieve the JS rating, there is a two year period before you are eligible to test for MS. That might sound like a long time, but most folks need that amount of time, or longer, to hone their skills to the point where their knives will pass the rigid standards.
Something that I find surprising, and that I feel is part of doing your "homework", is to get out there and attend a few of the bigger shows during the time your working towards your JS. Sure it costs to go to these shows, but the knowledge you will gain from being exposed to the high level of workmanship is invaluable. It's also a matter of seeing and knowing the level of work that is out there, which gives you an indication of what will be expected when you step up to test. In several cases when I've been a judge, folks have shown up "out of the blue" to test for their JS. These where people that nobody knew, and who had never attend any major shows, nor had they taken the time/effort to have the knives they submitted for testing reviewed by anyone. In ALL those cases the knives were far below the minimum standard, and the person(s) failed. After talking with some of those individuals it was obvious that they did not fully understand what was required, nor did they understand the gravity of the endeavor. Had they put forth the effort to seek out other Bladesmiths, or go to a few major shows, they would have known/understood what was expected.
I always tell perspective testers to read, re-read, and then re-read the ABS testing rules. You would be surprised at the number of people who have shown up at my shop, wanting to test for their JS, that I had to turn away because their test knife did not meet the requirements, (overall knife too long, blade too wide, etc) which showed me that they never even took the time to read and comprehend the rules.
Those rules can be found here:
JS performance test rules
During my recovery from surgery last fall, I wrote a couple of articles for my website, in which I tried to break things down even further for those who aspire to test for JS or MS. You can find those articles here:
ABS Performance Testing
ABS Presentation Testing
There is a three year wait period from the time you join the ABS until you are eligible to test for JS (if you attend the ABS Beginning Bladesmithing course at the ABS school, that time frame is reduced to two years), and once you achieve the JS rating, there is a two year period before you are eligible to test for MS. That might sound like a long time, but most folks need that amount of time, or longer, to hone their skills to the point where their knives will pass the rigid standards.
Something that I find surprising, and that I feel is part of doing your "homework", is to get out there and attend a few of the bigger shows during the time your working towards your JS. Sure it costs to go to these shows, but the knowledge you will gain from being exposed to the high level of workmanship is invaluable. It's also a matter of seeing and knowing the level of work that is out there, which gives you an indication of what will be expected when you step up to test. In several cases when I've been a judge, folks have shown up "out of the blue" to test for their JS. These where people that nobody knew, and who had never attend any major shows, nor had they taken the time/effort to have the knives they submitted for testing reviewed by anyone. In ALL those cases the knives were far below the minimum standard, and the person(s) failed. After talking with some of those individuals it was obvious that they did not fully understand what was required, nor did they understand the gravity of the endeavor. Had they put forth the effort to seek out other Bladesmiths, or go to a few major shows, they would have known/understood what was expected.
I always tell perspective testers to read, re-read, and then re-read the ABS testing rules. You would be surprised at the number of people who have shown up at my shop, wanting to test for their JS, that I had to turn away because their test knife did not meet the requirements, (overall knife too long, blade too wide, etc) which showed me that they never even took the time to read and comprehend the rules.
Those rules can be found here:
JS performance test rules
During my recovery from surgery last fall, I wrote a couple of articles for my website, in which I tried to break things down even further for those who aspire to test for JS or MS. You can find those articles here:
ABS Performance Testing
ABS Presentation Testing
Last edited:
James Terrio
Well-Known Member
Mr. Caffrey, I've never forged anything in my life, and it may be years before I do. Nonetheless, the info and insights in your articles are pertinent and helpful to anyone who wants to build a great, not just good, knife, no matter how they go about it. Thanks!
Josh Dabney
Moderator
Ed,
Just want to say thanks for helping those of us new to the craft figure out how to go about the endeavor of seeking the Journeyman stamp.
All you do through the forums and your personal website is GREATLY appreciated !
-Josh
Just want to say thanks for helping those of us new to the craft figure out how to go about the endeavor of seeking the Journeyman stamp.
All you do through the forums and your personal website is GREATLY appreciated !
-Josh
Fletch Helical
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info Ed, like others have said already it's greatly appreciated and helps us new guys out quite a bit in becoming better makers.
B
Brad Singley
Guest
Hi Wick, You are right about the HT for 5160 and the JS test. His question was directed at the JS test and the steel most people used, that's the spirit I answered the question in. I would never build a knife for a customer like I built my JS test knife.
RodneyJ
Well-Known Member
Just wondering why you would not build a knife in the same manner for a coustomer. It seems like a good blade to be able to pass those requirments. what are the weaknesses of the test blade.