Josh Dabney
Moderator
LOVIN IT !!!!
-Josh
-Josh
Double guard and framed handle, rear bolsters too
- Thread starter Bruce Bump
- Start date
Brad Lilly
Moderator and Awards Boss
And now I need a mirror in my shop. Great WIP I now have a couple new tricks to try
Bruce Bump
Forum Owner-Moderator
Thanks again guys for the feedback.
I spent some quality time on the frame and fitting it. The tang is only about .180" thick and my frame is .250" thick so it was neccesary to surface grind it to slightly thicker than the tang. I stopped at around .190" It needs to fit into the back of the spacer and guard but be thicker than the tang. Exactness can be achieved but its not really too important here. What is important is that all the gaps around the guard get closed up with some fine grinding and filing. Gaps are bad and visible epoxy is also.
Surface grinding the frame:
Sanding the bandsaw marks from inside the frame:
Roughly checking the fit so far:
Marking the contact spots and grinding them away until the tang fits deeper into the frame:
With the file guide clamped on I can rough grind the front of the frame so it is rounded and fine fit it with a file:
I spent some quality time on the frame and fitting it. The tang is only about .180" thick and my frame is .250" thick so it was neccesary to surface grind it to slightly thicker than the tang. I stopped at around .190" It needs to fit into the back of the spacer and guard but be thicker than the tang. Exactness can be achieved but its not really too important here. What is important is that all the gaps around the guard get closed up with some fine grinding and filing. Gaps are bad and visible epoxy is also.
Surface grinding the frame:
Sanding the bandsaw marks from inside the frame:
Roughly checking the fit so far:
Marking the contact spots and grinding them away until the tang fits deeper into the frame:
With the file guide clamped on I can rough grind the front of the frame so it is rounded and fine fit it with a file:
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Mike Martinez
Well-Known Member
Amazing work and very well documented. Bruce you're a great asset to the whole knifemaking community.
God bless.
God bless.
Bruce Bump
Forum Owner-Moderator
After several attempts and adjustments by filing and grinding the frame now fits pretty good but now the front of the guard has to be adjusted by filing just a tad from the 4 rounded corners. Being careful to not widen the slot or lengthen the slot. Notice the file has had the cutting teeth removed so the only place that cuts is the edges of the file. This is called "safe side" and you will want to do this to a file. Just a few strokes without the safe side will result in a gap.
I modified a store bought wood clamp to aid in assembly of the bowies. Notice the two G-10 plates bolted on to hold the blade straight and the leather pad for the tip to bury into. The screw handle end has a soft leather pad glued onto it. This clamp is mounted in the bench vise and good for dry fitting and later final assembly with epoxy. Right now I am happy with the fitting of the guard, spacer and frame so I clamped it tight and super glued the frame to the tang. Next I plan to work on the profile an do some rough shaping on the guard. This is all easier to do as temporally glued assembly rather than individual parts.
Thanks again for staying with me each day. Comments and questions are always welcome.
I modified a store bought wood clamp to aid in assembly of the bowies. Notice the two G-10 plates bolted on to hold the blade straight and the leather pad for the tip to bury into. The screw handle end has a soft leather pad glued onto it. This clamp is mounted in the bench vise and good for dry fitting and later final assembly with epoxy. Right now I am happy with the fitting of the guard, spacer and frame so I clamped it tight and super glued the frame to the tang. Next I plan to work on the profile an do some rough shaping on the guard. This is all easier to do as temporally glued assembly rather than individual parts.
Thanks again for staying with me each day. Comments and questions are always welcome.
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Boatbuilder
Well-Known Member
This is awesome Bruce. Really enjoy watching you work. I just wish you lived closer.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Jim
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Jim
Travis Fry
Well-Known Member
Bruce,
How do you control lateral (side to side) movement of the tang within the frame so that it stays centered? Do your alignment tabs simply fit tight enough to avoid this?
I've been thinking about making a few frame handled daggers out of some of the billets we made at Jim's, so these kinds of questions have been keeping me awake at night.
How do you control lateral (side to side) movement of the tang within the frame so that it stays centered? Do your alignment tabs simply fit tight enough to avoid this?
I've been thinking about making a few frame handled daggers out of some of the billets we made at Jim's, so these kinds of questions have been keeping me awake at night.
Bruce Bump
Forum Owner-Moderator
Don't drink coffee at bedtime
Yes the front tabs center and secure the blade into the guard and are tight after clamping but there is some lateral movement on the pommel end of the tang as it is slightly tapered and the frame is slightly thicker than the tang. This one will receive rear bolsters that will hold the tang but will still need a shim between the tang and the bolsters on both sides. It will also receive a pair of stainless liners and epoxy.
Bruce Bump
Forum Owner-Moderator
In shaping the guard and spacer I use the belt grinder with a new 36 belt and go to a dremel with a 1/4" and 1/2" sanding drum. Also the foredoom with a 1" drum.
These next pics are in the order I took them although I doubt theres any hard fast set rules on how to shape a guard if it comes out right in the end. This one looks to be very close to what I want.
Theres not much need for explanation but if a picture tells 1000 words here are about 14,000 words.
These next pics are in the order I took them although I doubt theres any hard fast set rules on how to shape a guard if it comes out right in the end. This one looks to be very close to what I want.
Theres not much need for explanation but if a picture tells 1000 words here are about 14,000 words.
Bruce Bump
Forum Owner-Moderator
I do have a small wheel attachment for my burr king but I can be more accurate with the hand grinders. I buy the rolls on eBay by the hundreds, be sure to get the grit variety packs. I go through allot of the coarse grits.
Bruce Bump
Forum Owner-Moderator
Last night I was able to prepare the ivory for the bowie. This is mammoth and some of the rarest I've had. Everybody thinks its stag because of the color and pattern. This pattern will make it difficult to use pins or bolts so I'm thinking "hidden pins". Hidden pins are actual pins through the tang and frame but they are short enough that they are not through the scales. The hidden pins are aided by epoxy, more on this soon.
The scales are close to final thickness but one is too thick and needs to be flattened and surfaced from the back side. I use .010" thick black fiber spacer material on all my ivory and stag to help seal out moisture and give just a visual color. Red is nice but mostly just black.
This litlle Ryobi disc sander has seen years of service and never complains. It is only a 6" but that allows me to buy a wide variety of grits at rock bottom prices on ebay. Just peel and stick. This is a fresh 50 grit paper so the ivory doesnt heat up. All ivory hates heat and will warp or crack either now or later if heated too much. A good test is to touch it to your bottom lip, if it hurts its too hot.
I put a foot switch on this sander so its easy to place the ivory onto the paper and tap the pedal. Its very accurate and saves the fingers too.
The scales are close to final thickness but one is too thick and needs to be flattened and surfaced from the back side. I use .010" thick black fiber spacer material on all my ivory and stag to help seal out moisture and give just a visual color. Red is nice but mostly just black.
This litlle Ryobi disc sander has seen years of service and never complains. It is only a 6" but that allows me to buy a wide variety of grits at rock bottom prices on ebay. Just peel and stick. This is a fresh 50 grit paper so the ivory doesnt heat up. All ivory hates heat and will warp or crack either now or later if heated too much. A good test is to touch it to your bottom lip, if it hurts its too hot.
I put a foot switch on this sander so its easy to place the ivory onto the paper and tap the pedal. Its very accurate and saves the fingers too.
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Bruce Bump
Forum Owner-Moderator
With most of my bowies I like the handle kinda thin and decided that .750" - 1.00" wide was about right. These scales right now without the fiber spacer are just over .250" in the center. I still need to make stainless steel liners but they will only be .020" each plus the fiber spacers, includes the frame should all together equal around .860". Sounds about perfect to me.
Here is some shots of the the fiber spacer material. I simply cut it oversize and superglue it on clamped down tight on a flat surface. I leave it to dry slowly over night.
Card stock is heavy paper and handy to make handle templates. I just trace the frame onto the card and measure where the rear bolsters need to be. This ivory is a tad short but with longer bolsters it will work just fine. I cut the template and can use it to make the bolsters. Thats coming next.
Here is some shots of the the fiber spacer material. I simply cut it oversize and superglue it on clamped down tight on a flat surface. I leave it to dry slowly over night.
Card stock is heavy paper and handy to make handle templates. I just trace the frame onto the card and measure where the rear bolsters need to be. This ivory is a tad short but with longer bolsters it will work just fine. I cut the template and can use it to make the bolsters. Thats coming next.
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Mike Martinez
Well-Known Member
Bruce, you seriously need to consider putting a book or ebook together. The nuances that most would overlook or never think of seem to make all the difference. Everyone of your WIPs and Tutorials brings me closer to making the knives I dream of.
Mark Behnke
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised to see that the frame guard assembly is held together with super glue after all the shaping.
Will you disassemble and reassemble for any reason?
Will you disassemble and reassemble for any reason?
Bruce, reading your steps, and I get the feeling "I can do that"...... then reality sets in and realize just how difficult it really is to do some of the things you do. That's why a real Master Smith's knife will sell for 10 times more than my simple knives. BUT - each time I follow one of your (and other folks) WIPs, I get closer to making better knives.
THANK YOU!!!
Ken H>
THANK YOU!!!
Ken H>
Bruce Bump
Forum Owner-Moderator
Hi Mark,
Yes, this is simply glued to hold things together for shaping and fitting the guard and handle. It will pop apart when everything is done for final sanding and etching of the blade. I'll use epoxy in place of the temparary super glue on the tang and frame.Thanks, good question.
Yes, this is simply glued to hold things together for shaping and fitting the guard and handle. It will pop apart when everything is done for final sanding and etching of the blade. I'll use epoxy in place of the temparary super glue on the tang and frame.Thanks, good question.
Bruce Bump
Forum Owner-Moderator
On to the rear bolsters and scales this afternoon.
I marked out where I wanted the lanyard hole and drilled it to letter F size so a 1/4" stainless tube will fit into it with no trouble and cut the rear bolsters on the bandsaw slightly oversized and super glued one to the frame.
I drilled the lanyard hole through the first bolster and laid out 2 holes for pins that will be peened later to hold the rear bolsters in place permanently.
The super glue does a fine job holding the bolsters on if the drill bit is new or at least very sharp otherwise it will swell up metal and pop the bolster off when it goes through. If that happens simply clean the two surfaces again and re-glue them. I like to make one hole and put a temporary pin in the hole and drill the next one. This super glue held tight through the entire drilling process. The pins I'm using are 1/8" 416 stainless and I drill 1/8" holes through the tang and the one bolster.
Next glue the other bolster to the frame being careful to line it up very close to the first one and drill through it using the first one as a guide.
I marked out where I wanted the lanyard hole and drilled it to letter F size so a 1/4" stainless tube will fit into it with no trouble and cut the rear bolsters on the bandsaw slightly oversized and super glued one to the frame.
I drilled the lanyard hole through the first bolster and laid out 2 holes for pins that will be peened later to hold the rear bolsters in place permanently.
The super glue does a fine job holding the bolsters on if the drill bit is new or at least very sharp otherwise it will swell up metal and pop the bolster off when it goes through. If that happens simply clean the two surfaces again and re-glue them. I like to make one hole and put a temporary pin in the hole and drill the next one. This super glue held tight through the entire drilling process. The pins I'm using are 1/8" 416 stainless and I drill 1/8" holes through the tang and the one bolster.
Next glue the other bolster to the frame being careful to line it up very close to the first one and drill through it using the first one as a guide.