Wood stabilizing question

The pressure rushing back to normal makes a mess inside the chamber. My concern is that it will splash and clog my gauge or valve or something. Plus if you dyed your resin it will color your clear lid...ask me how I know...
 
Chris Railey said:
The pressure rushing back to normal makes a mess inside the chamber. My concern is that it will splash and clog my gauge or valve or something. Plus if you dyed your resin it will color your clear lid...ask me how I know...
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Thanks, Chris. I understand now why it's a really big no-no.
 
Personally, I'm not a fan of "cactus juice". I gave it a try years ago, when I had the stabilizing bug, and had knives returned because the handle materials (maple burl and Box Elder Burl) turned "milky" over time and use. One knife only had a single hunting season on it, and the other way a daily carry for about 4 months before the clients contacted/sent me pics. I don't know if I got a bad batch or what, and usually will give folks a second chance....but in this case I sent emails and left phone messages with no responses. I can tolerate and forgive a lot, but when I am a customer, with a bad product, and am ignored...... I get a HUGE chip on my should for that company/product.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
Personally, I'm not a fan of "cactus juice". I gave it a try years ago, when I had the stabilizing bug, and had knives returned because the handle materials (maple burl and Box Elder Burl) turned "milky" over time and use. One knife only had a single hunting season on it, and the other way a daily carry for about 4 months before the clients contacted/sent me pics. I don't know if I got a bad batch or what, and usually will give folks a second chance....but in this case I sent emails and left phone messages with no responses. I can tolerate and forgive a lot, but when I am a customer, with a bad product, and am ignored...... I get a HUGE chip on my should for that company/product.
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Did you ever find something that worked better?
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
but in this case I sent emails and left phone messages with no responses. I can tolerate and forgive a lot, but when I am a customer, with a bad product, and am ignored...... I get a HUGE chip on my should for that company/product.
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Ed, being ignored by a company would give me extremely bad feelings also. I've had really good experience with customer support. Back when I first tried the stuff I talked with him a couple (3?) times on the phone, always easy to get in contact with. Seems like once I did leave msg and he returned my call. Each time he spent as much time as I wished on phone with no feel of "rushing" to get off phone.

The wood used for home stabilizing is important, it won't work with just any wood. Wood used really needs to be an open pore wood that will soak up the resin. Curtis (seems like that is the Cactus Juice guy's name) says even American Black Walnut isn't a good wood to use, just doesn't soak up the resin very well. K&G does a GREAT job of American Black Walnut, and isn't really all that much more expensive than home stabilizing, especially considering the equip costs.
 
KenH said:
K&G does a GREAT job of American Black Walnut, and isn't really all that much more expensive than home stabilizing, especially considering the equip costs.
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You are correct it is expensive and K&G's wood is terrific I have used it several times. Its been said on here many times but unless is spalted, which some makers will not use even though its stabilized, most woods do not require stabilizing. Pretty much the only time I stabilize in house is when I want to dye or double dye. I just really like the look of green/brown or green/yellow dyed maple burl.
 
After trying a number of stabilizing agents, and finding issues with all of them, I found a company in Florida, that produces the stabilizing agents for the major outfits that do stabilizing......only problem was the smallest quantity they'd sell was a 5 gallon bucket, and the cost was $575.00 plus shipping! They told me it would be far cheaper if I purchased a 55 gal drum.....that way, it would be "only" $4,125.00! (that made it a mere $75 per gallon, versus $115 per gallon if purchased in 5 gallon bucket) I did buy ONE bucket or it....and it did work the best of anything I'd tried. That was when I realized I would be WAY ahead in cost, time, and frustration to just send my stuff out for stabilizing....and that's what I've done ever since.

IMO it just isn't worth the cost, time, etc for an individual to TRY to do their own stabilizing. For those who doubt that.....give anything you've stabilized at home, with the "cheap" stabilizing agents some time, and you'll understand what I'm saying.
 
The more I read about this the more I dont know?? I wanted to try it with some local wood I bought. Dont know if it would be worth sending to KMG. Plus I thought I would have the things to do it in the future.
 
I bought a vacuum pump, pot set up really everything but the cactus juice. Then I bought a block which was stabilized with cactus juice. I didn't like how it finished. I haven't and won't do any home stabilizing. I send wood to K&G and have no problems with handle wood.
 
I have never stabilized my own, but I have certainly discovered that not all stabilizing is equal. Almost all of the stabilized wood I have bought, from many sellers, has been done by K&G. It's what I'm used to when I use stabilized wood. But I have bought blocks at knife shows that are very, very different from the K&G blocks I'm used to. These blocks of maple look and feel like solid blocks of epoxy. They are "so" stabilized that they weigh as much as brick. And you know what? I seriously do not like it. They are rock hard. They don't finish well. They don't take oil evenly, and the end product looks like plastic.

When I used to hear people saying that stabilized blocks don't take oil, I had to disagree. Every K&G block I've ever used will take oil after it's been shaped and sanded. But this rock hard stuff I have gotten from the knife shows is simply awful to deal with. I shape it, sand it, buff it, and put wax on it. That's all I can get it to do.
 
John Wilson said:
I have never stabilized my own, but I have certainly discovered that not all stabilizing is equal. Almost all of the stabilized wood I have bought, from many sellers, has been done by K&G. It's what I'm used to when I use stabilized wood. But I have bought blocks at knife shows that are very, very different from the K&G blocks I'm used to. These blocks of maple look and feel like solid blocks of epoxy. They are "so" stabilized that they weigh as much as brick. And you know what? I seriously do not like it. They are rock hard. They don't finish well. They don't take oil evenly, and the end product looks like plastic.

When I used to hear people saying that stabilized blocks don't take oil, I had to disagree. Every K&G block I've ever used will take oil after it's been shaped and sanded. But this rock hard stuff I have gotten from the knife shows is simply awful to deal with. I shape it, sand it, buff it, and put wax on it. That's all I can get it to do.
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Thanks for that info , John. I've often wondered about the subsequent finish -ability ( new word, methinks!) of these stabilized woods. Guess I'll be using K&G for any of my wood.
Question: Do you stabilize all of your wood? Or just suspect pieces?
 
In my opinion ONLY, if the wood does not need stabilizing I would not stabilize it (unless you just want to dye it for looks). In my opinion ONLY it does not add much that tru-oil or another good wood finish cannot do and it costs way more. I like stabilized burls because of the voids and things inherent in burls but I bet there are some who do not stabilize burls. If I am being 100% honest, short of spalted woods, I really do not know which woods "require' stabilizing. I would love it if someone knows which ones "should" be stabilized and list them. Since you already have the stuff I would give it a try, use the wood you have at first and see what happens. Just do a little research on the wood type, as mentioned above, some accept the resin better than others. Since your chamber is small try dying or double dying some as well.
 
Chris Railey said:
In my opinion ONLY, if the wood does not need stabilizing I would not stabilize it (unless you just want to dye it for looks). In my opinion ONLY it does not add much that tru-oil or another good wood finish cannot do and it costs way more. I like stabilized burls because of the voids and things inherent in burls but I bet there are some who do not stabilize burls. If I am being 100% honest, short of spalted woods, I really do not know which woods "require' stabilizing. I would love it if someone knows which ones "should" be stabilized and list them. Since you already have the stuff I would give it a try, use the wood you have at first and see what happens. Just do a little research on the wood type, as mentioned above, some accept the resin better than others. Since your chamber is small try dying or double dying some as well.
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What dyes do you use , Chris?
 
I have used both the Alumalite dyes and Cactus juice Dye. But I have only used them in Cactus Juice. They both work well for me.
 
The only thing I can add is that I used Cactus Juice dye in the table top resin I did that "hybrid" block with and it worked fine. I would mix a little test up and see if it will cure according to the resin directions.
 
I am in complete agreement with Chris. I am not going to say that stabilizing is snake oil, because there are some woods that absolutely need it because they are punky, have voids, or are prone to checking. But knives, swords, axes, and guns have existed up til now, all before stabilizing was even a thing. I don’t think stabilizing is bad in any way, but I think people have come to believe that it’s necessary when for most woods I don’t believe that it is.

Some woods I prefer unstabilized, like maple. Others like Koa I have used both ways and can’t tell the difference when I’m done. Keeping in mind that every block of wood is different so it’s not entirely a species thing. I do have a small koa log here that I was given that I would stabilize because it feels soft and slightly punky to me.

I also agree with Chris that if you seal the wood when you’re done, that’s about as sealed as it’s ever going to be anyway.
 
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John Wilson said:
I am in complete agreement with Chris. I am not going to say that stabilizing is snake oil, because there are some woods that absolutely need it because they are punky, have voids, or are prone to checking. But knives, swords, axes, and guns have existed up til now, all before stabilizing was even a thing. I don’t think stabilizing is bad in any way, but I think people have come to believe that it’s necessary when for most woods I don’t believe that it is.

Some woods I prefer unstabilized, like maple. Others like Koa I have used both ways and can’t tell the difference when I’m done.

I also agree with Chris that if you seal the wood when you’re done, that’s about as sealed as it’s ever going to be anyway.
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Thanks , John. That's pretty much what I was thinking. I'm a big fan of True-oil also. It works so well on gun stocks and the first four knives I've completed. (Wow, four knives already! And still somewhat sane. And the farm is still working! And the firewood is cut. And the animals are fed! And the cuts on my fingers are starting to heal. Whodda thunk?)
 
What must be remembered is that not all woods will readily stabilise anyway as they are far to dense, I have tried and it's basically a waste of time. But the beauty of stabilising done correctly is that it will allow you to use what you would have though worthless wood and turn it into something that is solid and hard . In fact the worse woods are normally the best would as will soak up the resin. I have some stunning burls, fit for the fire as far as handles are concerned but if stabilised they will make stunning handles

If you want to get more adventurous then there dying of wood, double and triple dying for some mind blowing effects .

i have just bought a pressure pot and the choices of wood to make handles from is incredible for now I have stacks of wood off cuts and scraps of burl that I can make into handles is hybrid blanks.

Oh and to stop the air rushing in your chamber get a 1/4 inch T with 1/4 inch thread tube and fit it on your inlet so air isn't directed down on release but to the sides ..... No more resin splatters.

With regards to moisture, cook the wood doe 24hrs in the oven @ 105-110 c to rid of all moisture, let the wood cool and then store in zip bags till you need to stabilise, it will be fine. Don't get caught up with moisture when stabilising as the wood will be fine under the stabilising solution and once the vac I s released keep it in the resin for a few days to really let the stuff soak in, its worth the extra time.

Oh and for those looking into stabilising …..don't buy a cheap Chinese pump....it will last several hrs then it is junked.


Here in the UK if wooden handles are used for deer field processing they must be of a material that will not harbour bacteria and so wood should be stabilised to prevent this .
 
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