Mark Barone
Well-Known Member
Wasn’t the group Peter Opaul and Mary?
Where has all of the 1084 gone?
- Thread starter Abbott
- Start date
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Is it time for a history lesson yet?? 
The lack of knife steel is at least part of the reason we now have The New Jersey Steel Baron. Most of the U.S. producers of carbon steels, and in particular 1084 went under. BUT..... the philosophy of the then steel producers paid off for us. That philosophy being.... when you receive an order for steel....you make at least TWO "ingots" (some might use the word "smelts") (20,000-40,000lbs depending on the steel type). One is finished/rolled out to the customer specs., and the other is placed in the "yard", for when the client needs the next order.
According to what Aldo told me a LONG time ago, at the time he owned a plumbing business, and liked knives. He traveled around, buying "ingots" of steel, that were left over when producers went under. Some how, he worked out the logistics of having it shipped, and rolled into sizes usable for knifemakers.
I was an "early adopter", and got in on the very first "batch" of 1084 Aldo offered.....purchasing 1,000lbs. (who has all his steel double and triple tested to ensure it meets the specs he advertises) After using up all the "leftovers" from companies here that had gone under/bankrupt, Aldo started having his steel produced, to his specs, at an overseas location. The last I knew, Aldo's steel is still produced overseas, in huge plate form, and shipped via sea to the U.S., where his company saws or shears to size, and sells.
To my knowledge, Aldo is the only U.S. source for 1084, and 80CRV2, unless some others have since started having their own produced. So, if Aldo is a "sole source", does it make sense that other entities that sell those grades of steel are getting it from Aldo, and tacking on their percentage before selling it to you? Just something to think about.
Although still by far the cheapest portion of producing a knife, currently, knife steel is more difficult to obtain, and more expensive then I have ever seen it in my 30+ years of Bladesmithing. What does that mean? That means IF you can find the steel you want/use, it is probably a good idea to take out a second mortgage, and buy as much as you possibly can. 1. Because it's not going to "go bad" on the shelf, and 2. It's not going to get any cheaper.
One final thing to think about and remember when you are searching for/purchasing steel. In the last decade, I have seen more and more entities, who sell steel, misrepresent grades in order to sell it. One example was a west coast steel seller who advertised 52100 in flat bar form, which is VERY unusual, but the price was surprisingly low....so I purchased 100lbs, just to see. Upon forging, it simply didn't feel right under the hammer, and several other things through the blade making process made me more and more suspicious that it was no 52100. So, I cut a few "coupons" and off to the lab I use. Guess what.... it came back as 01. I called the company, and upon telling them I wanted to return the steel and get my money back....and why, they refused a return, saying "the alloys are close enough that we can call it 52100." Little by little, that steel was given away as students passed through my shop.
I've also had two more recent experiences with companies claiming 80CRV2..... and the analysis coming back as 1095. So what does all that mean? It means, if the price of your chosen steel is surprisingly low....there's likely a reason. AND.... shopping for the lowest price is probably not the best idea. What is the best idea? Stick with known, trusted sources for you steel. Personally, I buy from only two sources. That is because I have been dealing with both for over 20 years, and I trust their integrity.
The lack of knife steel is at least part of the reason we now have The New Jersey Steel Baron. Most of the U.S. producers of carbon steels, and in particular 1084 went under. BUT..... the philosophy of the then steel producers paid off for us. That philosophy being.... when you receive an order for steel....you make at least TWO "ingots" (some might use the word "smelts") (20,000-40,000lbs depending on the steel type). One is finished/rolled out to the customer specs., and the other is placed in the "yard", for when the client needs the next order. According to what Aldo told me a LONG time ago, at the time he owned a plumbing business, and liked knives. He traveled around, buying "ingots" of steel, that were left over when producers went under. Some how, he worked out the logistics of having it shipped, and rolled into sizes usable for knifemakers.
I was an "early adopter", and got in on the very first "batch" of 1084 Aldo offered.....purchasing 1,000lbs. (who has all his steel double and triple tested to ensure it meets the specs he advertises) After using up all the "leftovers" from companies here that had gone under/bankrupt, Aldo started having his steel produced, to his specs, at an overseas location. The last I knew, Aldo's steel is still produced overseas, in huge plate form, and shipped via sea to the U.S., where his company saws or shears to size, and sells.
To my knowledge, Aldo is the only U.S. source for 1084, and 80CRV2, unless some others have since started having their own produced. So, if Aldo is a "sole source", does it make sense that other entities that sell those grades of steel are getting it from Aldo, and tacking on their percentage before selling it to you? Just something to think about.
Although still by far the cheapest portion of producing a knife, currently, knife steel is more difficult to obtain, and more expensive then I have ever seen it in my 30+ years of Bladesmithing. What does that mean? That means IF you can find the steel you want/use, it is probably a good idea to take out a second mortgage, and buy as much as you possibly can. 1. Because it's not going to "go bad" on the shelf, and 2. It's not going to get any cheaper.
One final thing to think about and remember when you are searching for/purchasing steel. In the last decade, I have seen more and more entities, who sell steel, misrepresent grades in order to sell it. One example was a west coast steel seller who advertised 52100 in flat bar form, which is VERY unusual, but the price was surprisingly low....so I purchased 100lbs, just to see. Upon forging, it simply didn't feel right under the hammer, and several other things through the blade making process made me more and more suspicious that it was no 52100. So, I cut a few "coupons" and off to the lab I use. Guess what.... it came back as 01.
I called the company, and upon telling them I wanted to return the steel and get my money back....and why, they refused a return, saying "the alloys are close enough that we can call it 52100." Little by little, that steel was given away as students passed through my shop.I've also had two more recent experiences with companies claiming 80CRV2..... and the analysis coming back as 1095. So what does all that mean? It means, if the price of your chosen steel is surprisingly low....there's likely a reason. AND.... shopping for the lowest price is probably not the best idea. What is the best idea? Stick with known, trusted sources for you steel. Personally, I buy from only two sources. That is because I have been dealing with both for over 20 years, and I trust their integrity.
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