What would cause this?

Daniel Macina

Well-Known Member
Ok so I go out today to the grinder to start my KITH knife and as always I gave all the wheels a little spin to make sure they were all spinning good and they were so I put a belt on and get to grinding. I'm grinding for about 15 min and start hearing a terrible noise like a bearing going out on one of the wheels, I thought no way the wheels are brand new and I haven't used the grinder that much yet. I take the bottom idler wheel off and it's completely shot as you can see below. What would cause this? I was very careful to use machine bushings and I only tightened till just about hand tight. There's been no friction and nothing's been getting hot. Is it something I did or bad wheels?IMG_1346.JPGIMG_1345.JPG

Photos are just one side of the wheel other sides perfectly fine as are the rest of the wheels.
 
Not sure what caused it but you can see the dust build up inside of the wheel! Bearings are supposed to be sealed but I have seen bearings fail before!!

I take the bottom idler wheel off and it's completely shot as you can see below.

Is this a grinder you build??

When you say bottom idler wheel, what exactly are you referring to??

Are you talking about the platen wheel??

Pics of your grinder might help to diagnose it!! Sometimes something being out of line or cantered slightly can cause undo wear!! Over heating can cause a bearing to fail as well, however that is usually caused by one of the above problems!!
 
I sadly only have old pictures of my grinder. Wheels where realigned after the picture and everything seemed to be running great.

Yes I was talking about the bottom platen wheel.

I haven't been to happy with anything I've bought from this particular company. Thinking I might just upgrade to a better set of wheels. Sucks because that pretty much uses up the rest of the knife making budget for the month. :confused:
 
Please PM me the name of that company. Maybe you can just replace the bearings and fabricate some kind of simple dust shield for the wheels.
 
OH MAN! I hate to see things like this happen.....it's just depressing.

Based on the pics, it appears that the outer bearing race melted into the wheel? Unfortunately, things like that sometimes occur when a part other then an actual contact wheel is used in a grinder application. Often times we fail to realize just how much heat, stress, and strain these parts are subjected to, and unless the parts we use are up to the task, this sort of thing is imminent. The only way I know to prevent future occurrences is to use aluminum, steel, or actual contact wheels made for grinder applications.
 
OH MAN! I hate to see things like this happen.....it's just depressing.

Based on the pics, it appears that the outer bearing race melted into the wheel? Unfortunately, things like that sometimes occur when a part other then an actual contact wheel is used in a grinder application. Often times we fail to realize just how much heat, stress, and strain these parts are subjected to, and unless the parts we use are up to the task, this sort of thing is imminent. The only way I know to prevent future occurrences is to use aluminum, steel, or actual contact wheels made for grinder applications.

Dang I was afraid of that. These are the Oregon Blade makers wheels that are supposed to be able to be used on a grinder. I meant to get aluminum and they where out of stock at the time. I had a little voice in the back of my head telling me not to get these but I didn't listen. Guess I should have.
 
It's weird though I would stop it after a few hrs of grinding and nothing felt hot at all. Definitely looks like it melted though. Thank you Mr. Caffrey!
 
Those are the OBM Lighting Wheels correct? I think you must have unfortunately gotten a bad beating? If it is OBM Iwould contact them, they should stand behind them. I have the same wheels on mine and have had no problems. The new multi platent I built has rubber wheels (from OBM) so I can grind on them directly for safety reasons.
 
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Looking at the picture there doesn't appear to be a spacer between the bearings. You need one to avoid tightening the bearings too tight.
 
Daniel I don't think it is the material the wheel is made of that maybe causing your problem. I feel like there is something out of line. Here is a link to a similar problem I had, although by the tittle you would not guess that!
https://knifedogs.com/threads/anyone-know-why-the-kmg-grinder-site-wont-open.47807/

I enjoy making my own parts. However as I have said in other posts if you do not have the tools or the ability to build your own, so to speak, that it is best to leave it alone and buy from a source that does!!

My problem was with the bottom platen wheel. I decided to remake my platen for about the third time since I initially built my first platen. This attempt was to give myself a 10" area on the flat of the platen. Shortly after I ran it the first time, I realized I was having problems!! A lot of noise that had not been there in the first two platen's! The tracking was off and I had to move the drive wheel on the shaft.

That should have been my first clue but I needed the platen and I ventured on. Then I had a project that required using the smaller wheel on my platen. I did not realize at the time that I had been putting so much stress on the wheel till I went to change a belt and realized how hot that wheel was!! Shortly there after the noise got louder and they was a vibration there that had not been there before!

I started the machine and realized my tracking was all screwed up. That should have been my second clue but once again I needed the machine and shrugged off the obvious, "that something was wrong"!! I could not get over the fact that noise and vibration continued and I could not put a finger on what was causing it!! This was the result! Sorry for the blurry pic but as you can see the wheel got so hot it cooked the glue that held the rubber on that wheel and the rubber let go!

2-2-2018 003 by Clifton Craft, on Flickr

So now the platen is official downed! Sometimes my mind keeps working on a problem even when outwardly I am doing other things. So I began to rework the problems of the grinder in my mind.
First it all started when I reworked the platen. When suddenly something changes enough you have to move a wheel, dramatically that is a major clue.
Second the noise started after I got the bottom wheel hot and the position I was using the platen in, caused even more stress!! I set about to pick others brains and I was about to post photo and I saw something in this photo!
2-2-2018 002 by Clifton Craft, on Flickr

When I saw it I had to go to the platen and confirm whether it was a problem or just an illusion created by the angle of the picture!! I pulled the platen completely off of the machine and removed the bottom wheel. I put in a stud in the hole the bolt for the bottom platen and laid a square against it. What I had picked up in the picture was true. The hole for that 1/2" bolt was threaded crooked.
If you get off even a little when starting a tap the resulting thread is going to be cantered. That bit of canter or out of square wasn't enough to pick up by eye. However it was enough to change how the machine ran the sanding belt.
I should have never had to change the position of the drive wheel just to get it too track correctly. Me leaning on the bottom platen wheel made the problem even worse. The heat caused the glue to let go but, more important it put enough stress on the bearing that the heat caused one of the two bearings to fail!!

When you build a grinder, everything has to be square and true.

Now that is not to say that the bearing on yours failed totally because of an undue strain. Sometimes bearings fail from a problem from the factory!! However it is something you need to look at!! Running a machine is like driving a car. After you run it for a while you get used to the sound. When that sound changes something is happening and you better pay attention to that change in sound. It may mean something has changed on the machine itself and it could be giving that two second warning the belt is about to explode!
 
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Would this not be a warrantee issue where you can approach them to replace the wheel?

Maybe but I don't think there's anyway to prove it was their fault could be something off with my grinder as @C Craft points out. Plus I'm tired of dealing with this company. Thanks for the advice Mr. Craft I'll look into that.
 
Daniel, was there a spacer between the bearings? If not tightening the mounting bolt will put enough pressure on the bearings to cause heat.

No sir. I had always heard it was alright that there wasn't one as long as you didn't over tighten. These where literally hand tight. Guess I learned that lesson the hard way.
 
The grinder is capable of running at 3,500 rpm but I don't think I've ever run it that fast. Usually go pretty slow since I'm a newbie. No I've never used them as a contact wheel.
 
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