What are the parameters for a "hunter"?

[Travis Fry]

Let's talk about it. Size, materials, size, guard, grind type, steel type, size (a theme?). For the sake of discussion, let's keep "skinners" as a separate category for another day.

My $.02: A hunter can be stainless or carbon (I prefer carbon, but only by a little and am not a snob about it), at least 1/8" thick, but not more than 1/4". A guard can be nice but is not required, though I like some kind of finger groove at the front if there is no guard. To me a hunter is something at least 6 inches long in total, but less than 8 1/2" or so. The handle should be long enough to hold onto with all of your fingers, even if you have big hands, so that limits blade lengths to be 1) proportional and 2) short enough to not exceed the OAL suggested above. Blade can be clipped, drop point, or trailing, whatever. I prefer drop points. Grind should be flat or hollow. I prefer flat. Handle can be stick tang or full, and materials can be pretty much anything as long as proper care of things like ivory is taken. Micarta and the various phenolics are hard to beat for durability, but who doesn't like mammoth?

These are my opinions only, and I'd not be posting this if they weren't malleable. Let me hear what the Dogs think! I'm asking because I want to make better hunters, and I want to understand people's expectations.

 

[NJStricker]

Travis,

Part of the size of the knife depends on what you are hunting. To me, at least in my experience, generally hunters have clip point (Buck 110) or drop point blade, hollow or flat ground (I prefer flat), and 1/8 or 5/32 at the thickest. The ones I've used most over the years rarely had a blade more than 7/8 inches high--go over an inch in height and you are probably looking more at a knife that's better suited for skinning. Guards--if they are there, they should be small--just enough to provide a tactile warning that your hand shouldn't go any farther forward. One of my favorites, a Marble's Ideal, has a guard that doesn't protrude more than about an 1/8 inch. My preference is for a 3.5 inch blade, 4.5 inch handle--that's just about right for whitetails. For me, anything over 4 or 4.5 inches and it gets to be a little too long for good control.

Nathan

 

[Mike Martinez]

Thanks for posting this, I hope to see a good exchange. I like your point of view with the exception of your max thickness. for me, my max has been about 3/8.

 

[Travis Fry]

Thanks for posting this, I hope to see a good exchange. I like your point of view with the exception of your max thickness. for me, my max has been about 3/8.

I actually agree with you Mike. I only mentioned 1/4 because a good distal taper can make even something that thick ok in certain situations. I prefer 1/8 or 5/32.

 

[Frank Hunter]

I think there's a lot of overlap between styles and I definitely agree with the guard being a defining point. I can take a 5.5" blade with a slight guard at the bolsters and ricasso, and turn it into a fighter by putting a more pronounced double guard on it. I find there to be several styles of hunting knife along a spectrum of "pointedness". A lot of people like a small 3.5" knife that has a definite acute, fine point to it for cutting around the anus and other detailed work, while others prefer a nessmuk style with a pronounced sweep and a wide trailing point that is unlikely to snag the guts or penetrate the hide. I find a lot of people use just 1 knife for the whole hunt and preparation, regardless of it being suited best for the gutting or the skinning aspect.
With that said, I find your definition of a non-skinner to be about perfect. Fairly short, narrow blade out of thin stock for an extremely keen edge, with minimal weight or protrusions while allowing a full grip.

 

[Mark Behnke]

I think Loveless nailed it.
3 1/2" -4" blade
7 3/4" t0 8 1/4" LOA
approx. .200" at recasso, but tapers front to back making a very light knife
Hollow grind
Drop point
1" wide blade
small guard

 

[rhinoknives]

There are reasons why Loveless was such a success.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com

 

[phatjohn]

I think Loveless nailed it.
3 1/2" -4" blade
7 3/4" t0 8 1/4" LOA
approx. .200" at recasso, but tapers front to back making a very light knife
Hollow grind
Drop point
1" wide blade
small guard
View attachment 37776

+1

I'm still very new to knife making and so far, as far as a style goes, for a general purpose hunting knive mine have all been Loveless style. I've been using 5/32 CPM 154 CM or 1095 on my Loveless style knives. For guard and pin, 416 SS, Loveless bolts and stabilized hardwoods. They continue to improve, and I'm having a blast making them.

 

[LovelessKnives]

Many, many different reasons in fact.

 

[Fred Rowe]

As I've aged, the hunters I use have gotten a lot shorter in length. I prefer a 3 inch blade with a very keen edge that has enough drop along the spine to give me easy access to the different layers in an animal. Add a handle that is not slick but has a gripping surface or at least enough form to assure a firm hold.

 

[DonL]

What a cool thread! Like Nathan said above, the ideal Hunting knife depends on what you're hunting. Even though I could manage to cut up a Moose with a Small Game knife, I'd prefer something a littler larger! Since Whitetails are the most hunted Big Game, I'm assuming that's the critter you're talking about. I have to agree with most of the others who've posted here.

A blade length between 3 and 4". 7/8ths to 1 1/4" height. Drop point preferably. Handle of 4 1/2" or longer and not real thick like so many custom makers are putting out these days. I prefer micarta or G10 for practical use but love exotic woods as well.

Although I'm not a Sharpfinger fanatic, I made this knife for myself. I've never cared for the thin upswept blade of a Sharpfinger, so I beefed this one up. It worked wonderfully on the two Whitetails I shot this year. Blade is 3 1/2" 1084 with micarta scales. I had plans on giving it away as a gift, but after using it, I decided to keep it. It's small enough to maneuver inside the body cavity without hacking your hand up but large enough to get the job done. I open the brisket all the way to the neck and this is plenty of blade to get the job done.

 

[Travis Fry]

I think Loveless nailed it.
3 1/2" -4" blade
7 3/4" t0 8 1/4" LOA
approx. .200" at recasso, but tapers front to back making a very light knife
Hollow grind
Drop point
1" wide blade
small guard
View attachment 37776

This is hard to argure with. I took some of the parameters discussed that I agree with (small guard, 7/8" tall x 3.5" long blade, 4.5" handle, drop point) and started sketching and they all end up looking something like the Loveless knife pictured. Change the butt end to resemble a Fisk Sendero or drop the handle a little or whatever and it still looks a bit like a Loveless knife. If anyone remembers back this far, it's "one of those things that make you go hmmmm."

 

[NJStricker]

Other than a Loveless, the other "classic" hunter that comes to mind is a George Herron semi-skinner. The back end of the handle is rhomboidal like the Fisk Sendero, but the blade is basically a drop point with a little bit of an upswept curve.

 

[Travis Fry]

I don't know what this says about me, but I'd never heard of George Herron. I looked at a bunch of pictures though, and he seems to capture everything I've wanted to become as a knife maker! So many ideas I've had that didn't look quite right, turns out Mr. Herron did something similar but with all my dumb kinks worked out. A lot of my designs I keep thinking, "How could I do this with a guard and still have it look right?" I couldn't ever get it, but Mr. Herron did. I don't mean to imply that I'm better at this than I am, only that so many of George Herron's designs are what I was trying and failing to come up with. His model 6, 8 and Bigby hunters are simply superb, and some of his skinners are outstanding as well. Thanks for the shout out to Mr. Herron, my new favorite maker! My knife making will never be the same.

Here's a model 6:


and a model 8:


and a Bigby:


and finally, a skinner:

 

[GHEzell]

Other than a Loveless, the other "classic" hunter that comes to mind is a George Herron semi-skinner.

I agree, to me Herron's knives fit the bill nicely, though I prefer making hidden tangs...

To me, a hunter, as opposed to a skinner, is a 'jack of all trades' while the skinner is a specialist. I like a slightly larger blade (4-5 inch), and a drop or straight clip point that is pointy enough to poke with, a minimal but functional guard, 1/8" to 3/16" stock maybe thicker if distally tapered, decent belly, and a reasonably thin edge... basically a utility knife that can be used to skin with, but can also remove small branches to clear a line of fire, whittle fire sticks, and do light camp duty. In the end, it depends on what the customer considers a hunter, though.

 

[datoudaw]

Hi, Travis,

What primary bevel will you flat grind for each of (1) 7 1/2" OVL, 5/32" thick, 1" wide, (2) 7 1/2" OVL, 5/32" thick, 1 1/4" wide, hunter knife? What kind of edge will they be?

I am still learning how to make knives. Quite often made knives either too thick or too thin. What will be the most "efficient" thickness for primary and secondary angles for a hunter?

Thanks,

Jerome

 

[Travis Fry]

Jerome, I'm not sure I understand the question. If I'm flat grinding, I usually do a full flat grind. In other words, the grind goes all the way to (but not through!) the spine of the blade. The angle of the primary bevel is thus dictated by 1) the thickness of the steel and 2) the height of the blade. If you don't do a full flat grind, obviously the angle is determined by #1 above and the height of the grind. I've never actually thought about it, but if the grind height and the thickness are known, the angle should be pretty easy to calculate with some basic trigonometry. All that goes out the window with a hollow grind, but the principle sticks.

I usually leave the edge thickness a little less than a millimeter before heat treating, and try to grind it to about .5mm before sharpening.

As for what thickness is best for cutting, my thought is that it depends on the intended use of the blade. I usually use my hunting knife to skin small animals (raccoons, foxes, etc.) or process smallish whitetailed deer (the same knife for both). None of these tasks demands a lot of strength or toughness, so a more acute angle that holds a keener edge is good for me. I've made hunters with 3/32" steel up to 1/4", but 1/8-5/32" seems to be the sweet spot for me.


I sharpen my hunting blades somewhere in the range of 17-22 degrees.

 

[Lee B]

I thought I would throw the perspective of a master hunter into the mix. The link will take you to an article written by Ross Seyfried. Ross has guided extensively in North America and was a professional hunter in Africa. He has written for Guns and Ammo, Rifle, Handloader, The Double Gun Journal, among others.

http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=704

Enjoy.

Lee

 

[Mike Martinez]

I thought I would throw the perspective of a master hunter into the mix. The link will take you to an article written by Ross Seyfried. Ross has guided extensively in North America and was a professional hunter in Africa. He has written for Guns and Ammo, Rifle, Handloader, The Double Gun Journal, among others.

http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=704

Enjoy.

Lee

Thank you for your post Lee, I love to see the point of view of some one with his level of experience.

 

[Joel]

I keep mine on the small to moderate size; 3 1/2 to 4 inch blades for the most part. I work in stainless and keep them thin (3/32") with a lot of distal taper. Alternate between drop point, semi skinner or spear point designs; once in a while a recurve..they all work. Some have no guard, some have a "thumb stop" kinda what folks have mentioned, and some use the wider blade/thinner handle method. I only flat grind and the blade can be anywhere from 7/8" to 1 3/16" wide. Use a lot of different handle materials; some I make myself. I like a handle with a clean "cockpit"..no finger grooves, swells or whatever although I like bird's head pommels and coffin handles on a small hunter's bowie I make. The handles are generally canoe shaped, fairly thick.....3/4" at the widest, with fairly flat sides and well beveled edges. What I call a kitchen knife handle. Gives me a lot of non-slip torque and I haven't had a customer complain yet.