Traditional knife sheaths

[pjkozy]

Personally, I am just as in my knives, I am concerned with only utility and function for a sheath. If you look at my sheaths, they don't try to overpower the the knife. Afterall, the knife is what we are talking about, not the sheath. With that said, my aim is to always go the extra mile to 1) not take away from the knife and 2) to protect the knife for the life of the knife. I use a pouch sheath because it protects the greatest area of the knife. It is also makes the knife accessible to the greatest protection while keeping it maximally accessible for use. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS..??
............. pete

 

[DC KNIVES]

Good thread.First and foremost I agree with you.The sheaths main function is to protect the knife and the user.That being said, and what many knifemakers fail to see is that the sheath is also the first thing seen ,not the knife.While I have seen some sheathmakers favor embellishment over function, that isn't normally the case. Most sheathmakers I know build and design with function first and embellishments second. While there is nothing wrong with plain sheaths on user style knives, a liltte embellishment could raise the price on the package.That is what you should look at, as a sheathmaker, making the sheath compliment the knife and becoming a total package.Actually alot of my work is replacing other makers sheaths with mine.

I really think most makers are into function first, and thats a great thing.But, I do believe most knifemakers could see a rise in sales if they had nicer sheaths.
Dave

 

[Rayban]

My thoughts....

It makes sense to me that a knife maker wants to keep the attention on his knife and not the sheath. Hence the difference in a knife maker who makes his own sheaths....or has them made for him, vs. the custom sheath maker.
I've been approached by a few knife makers who want to " keep them simple and plain jane so you won't have too much work in them"......which means they only want to pay $10-$15 for ea.
As for the pouch style, I seem to make those more than anything else too, but only because it's what fits the knife design.

 

[Bailey Knives]

I used to think the same way, sheaths were an afterthought and their only function was to carry and protect the knife. I still understand their prime function, but lately I have a hard time spending 15 hours on a knife, and then throwing it in a sheath that looks like it took me 15 minutes to make. My goal is not to have the sheath take away from the knife, but compliment it as well as it can. I dont think it needs a lot of embellishment to do that, but some knifes need more embellishment than others.

 

[WadeH]

I understand the different thoughts here but I believe Dave is right. While the sheath is there to protect the knife it is the very first thing you see and you never get a second chance to make a first impression. Just like wearing a belt, it is there to hold your pants up, but if looks did not matter we all would be using rope.

 

[Josh Dabney]

This is a very good topic of discussion !

My take, The sheath should indeed COMPLIMENT the style of the knife. Say for example your user field knife is a Rat Cutlery RC-4. It would be a bit silly to shoe it in an Ostrich overlaid sheath with sterling silver throat and toe engraved by Ken Hurst. That being said embellishment comes in many forms and a basketweave or tastfully tooled sheath may well be a nice match to a basic knife of that type.

Higher end users with higher end materials deserve a sheath of quality that Compliment the knife.

IMHO the idea of a sheath taking away, or overshadowing the knife, is non existant. If this case exists it would seem to be a matter of poor design choice matching knife and sheath or just make a nicer knife.

I would have to disagree respectfully with the original poster in that we are not really talking about the knife. If you supply a sheath with the knife it should be crafted to the same standards the knife is crafted. Every part of what the customer recieves is of equal importance. A utilitarian style plain sheath weather pouch or pancake or whatever may just be the ticket in some cases but in other cases the same sheath may also be an insult to the knife.

If I see a spectacular sheath I'm thinking, BOY I can't wait to see whats in there !! If I see a plain sheath I'm thinking probably user grade.

With all that said I also appreciate a plain handmade sheath that is crafted to perfection or as near as possible and believe that a plain style can also WOW folks as long as it COMPLIMENTS the knife.

-Josh

 

[Denny Eller]

I believe that the first and foremost function of a sheath is to protect the wearer. Period. Just as a boot's primary function is to protect the foot. Form follows function. But, just as I wouldn't wear my good snakeskin boots to muck out a stall, I wouldn't wear my work boots to the Wild Horse Saloon. I think that a sheath should show the pride the maker has in his craft just as much as a knife does, as long as the first requirement is met - safety for the wearer. I agree that first impressions are extremely important. If I see a sheath that is basically thrown together using every shortcut in the book I have to immediately wonder what shortcuts the maker used on the knife.

 

[Paul Long]

The idea of selling a knife and/or with a sheath is taking hold rapidly. I make sheaths for quite a large number of makers and the common theme is becoming that the knives are easier to sell as a package with a sheath.

Now since this is becoming more and more fact, it follows that the quality and the embellishment of the sheath should match the quality and embellishment of the knife it contains. The quality and care put into a good plain sheath for a user is the exact same quality put into a higher dollar sheath for an expensive knife, at least that's how it is in my shop. Further, most knife makers are not equipped to take on sheath making because they have, rightfully so, invested in knife making equipment. A large number of my clientele tell me they have also determined that if they invest the time it takes to make even a plain sheath in knife making instead, they would actually produce more and make more money, plus have generally better quality sheaths by going to a professional sheath maker.

There are exceptions, of course, because some knife makers turn out unbelievably beautiful and ornate sheaths, but the professional sheath maker will generally turn out higher quality and better looking sheaths than the knife maker. (the knife maker also makes much better knives than the average sheath maker).

It is also a truth that a relatively high percentage of higher value knives AND the sheaths fashioned to match up with those knives will never see even a minutes worth of use other than display, but those owners almost to the last man insist on a high quality sheath to complete the package.

I, and all the professional sheath makers I know, put out each sheath regardless of how fancy or plain to compete head on with the roughest toughest use imagined......yet they look good doing it.

So, Pete, it is what it is. There is and I guess there always will be a market for the fancy sheath and it seems to be growing....but there will always be a place for the plain vanilla also and I'm glad I make both.

A note about the photos below: The bowie sheath is an example of the more up scale production. The three pouch sheaths represent the standard production. I don't charge extra for tooling so if these were plain they would be the same price.

Paul

 

[Sandy Morrissey]

It all boils down to the fact that a GOOD sheath will help sell a GOOD knife. Whether the sheath is ornate or plain, it must be practical and functional even though it might spend its life as a "safe queen". When a knife is on display on a table or in a display case it is at its magnificent best---when it is sheathed, it is the sheaths time in the sun.

 

[C Craft]

This is a very good topic of discussion !

My take, The sheath should indeed COMPLIMENT the style of the knife.

-Josh

I agree whole heartedly, and that works in more ways than one!
I see knives all the time that the sheath doesn't compliment the knife at all. I will look at a knife from a new and inspiring knife maker and think to myself well his knife isn't bad at all but the sheath looks like something out of a dime store. We all start some where but if you look at your knife and sheath and have the same thoughts, practice, parctise, practice. I ruined a lot of leather when I first started and there are still those that I look at there finished sheaths and marvel at the quality and yet the simplicity that makes there finished sheath a great compliment to any blade.
The sheath has to be of a quality as to compliment the knife. I have also seen sheaths that seem to overpower the knife it was made for. Too much fancy work for the knife.
The style has to compliment as well. For me kydex does absolutely nothing for a more traditional style Bowie! I know that is my opinion and opinions are like a$$_ _ _ _s everybody has got one. Now a more modern fighting knife well then to each, his own, kydex might be just the right choice to compliment the knife.
Here is an example of trying to mate up the knife to the sheath and vice versa! This is a traditional friction folder, something that may have quite easily came from the 1800's and the sheath is rawhide over leather with beading and jingle cone, it has fringe and a neck/shoulder strap both of which would have been common to the time period.



Please click thumbnail to see larger image:



But then again this all is just my 2cents worth!

 

[Denny Eller]

Paul, your work is absolutely beautiful.

 

[Denny Eller]

C Craft, I don't know your name but your sheath is wonderful. I love period pieces and the look of rawhide and the embellishments. I haven't tried working with rawhide yet but hope to real soon.

 

[C Craft]

C Craft, I don't know your name but your sheath is wonderful. I love period pieces and the look of rawhide and the embellishments. I haven't tried working with rawhide yet but hope to real soon.

You know my name now, and I hope you see it more in the future! Thanks for the kind words.
Hey seriously rawhide is not that bad to work with. It is works best wet at least that is the way I have always worked it. The trick is how much extra rawhide to cut and how tight to stitch it because it shrinks as it dries. That is a learning process, and I found Elk rawhide works better that cow rawhide. It is not as greasy!
The fringe thing can be a pain as they go in as the stitching proceeds, or that was how it was explained to me and that is how I done that one. Each one is tied in with a stitch, as stitch goes into the sheath. It will make youw say all sorts of four letter words! oh no! 1Jaw Drop Great use for all those to small scraps of leather that are too small for anything else though!

 

[Sandy Morrissey]

A good follow up on this thread can be found in a sticky on the sheath making forum on knifenetwork,com. It is titled Integrating sheath design with knife style and was authored by Buddy Thompson. ---Sandy---

 

[ChuckBurrows]

Traditional? based on the description in the first post, the use would limit that term to the "common man ideals" of the mid-twentieth century.....

Since time immemorial sheaths of all levels have more often than not shown embellishment of some kind, often more so then the knife or sword they housed and yet were/are also fully functional.

As others have noted embellishment can and will run the gamut - some of the makers posting here are the best of the best when it comes to making sheaths and at least some have been doing it a very long time, yet in style of embellishment they are all different....Sandy's carving can't be beat especially within the genre he carves, Paul's style of inlaying and tooling is all his own, and Dave's style of inlays and edge lacing set him apart.....yet in all three cases the embellishment is based on traditional leather crafting styles.
On the other hand a poorly designed and built sheath is still a poor sheath no matter how well embellished......

As both a long time pro knifemaker and sheath maker I've come at this subject from both ends and can say a good sheath with even a small amount of embellishment will catch the eye of a customer faster than one without and that increases business and that's good - but the embellishment must be well done, appealing to the eye, and must "fit" - just throwing on some stamping or whatever can make it worse and lower sales.

Still there are always should be a place for "plain" and anyone who makes sheaths should be able to do that when called upon - and I know that Paul, Sandy, Dave, and myself can all do that, but then again embellishment not only adds to the price, but is very satisfying to our "souls"........everybody's "soul" though is different and one should do what they choose - in the instance of sheaths it's all good when done RIGHT and done to match the knife - embellished or not there is no defintive right or wrong.........

FWIW - in regards to adding to price - I make some of the most embellished sheaths available and do it in various styles/genres, with my beaded frontier styles being the most fancy and they generally DOUBLE my income - not only do I get to do what I like most of all these days, but I get paid what it's worth - you can't beat that.......and while to some eyes those fancy sheaths may not look functional they are made so from the ground up....they may nor be one's first choice to carry while hunting but that's not all one does with a knife - for instance many of my Texas compadres have an everyday using rig, but they also have a fancy BBQ rig as well.

IMO John Baldwin in his book - Early Knives & Beaded Sheaths of the American Frontier said it best:
"The beautiful sheaths created for storing the knife elevate the knife one step higher. It celebrates the knife it houses."

Just like some folks prefer bourbon and others prefer Scotch - plain or fancy - both are good - it's all a matter of personal taste.........

Fancy is as fancy does.......

Plain and (not always so) simple...

and then there's those that are in between.......

 

[Denny Eller]

Mr. Burrows you just took my breath away for the umpteenth time and I'm getting too old for that. Those sheaths are magnificent as always. You made a great point about the everyday sheath and the BBQ sheath. All anyone can see is the sheath and some or all of the handle of a knife. A proper sheath will pique people's curiousity about what is inside, while the sheath tells a story about the person who wears it. Side note: A job took me to Aspen where my wife and I lived for almost 2 years back in the early 1990's. If it had taken us to Durango, where real people live, we would probably still be there.

 

[ChuckBurrows]

Breath Denton Breath LOL! especially up here in the high country where the air is thin anyways.....

Glad you enjoyed the look see....

as for real people in Durango - we've been here since 1995 and unfortunately most of them must have moved away before we got here - it's not quite as ritzy and hoity toity as Aspen, but they're trying!