Stick tang or partial tang question

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believerjoe

Well-Known Member
How much of the blade is needed to make a good hidden or stick tang? Ones I have done so far had plenty of backbone because I had larger handles. Working on a couple where I needed them to be smaller, but wasn’t sure how small you can go. Assume the fit up is pretty tight meaning no wobble and the voids will be fixed with West Systems epoxy. A pin will keep it pulled all together.
 
Do you mean how much tang is needed in the handle? Not my department but I think at least 2/3rds of the handle length is a general rule. Could be wrong. Others willl probably chime in that’ll know better than me.
 
Yes. At what point is it not considered very structurally strong? I can make one and just mistreat it to find out, but figured people had been there and had time to know how it works out.
 
There have been *lots* of knives made that most would look at and think "that tang is awfully short," but are plenty serviceable knives. I think your best bet is decide what you want a particular knife to do, and build it strong enough to do that.
 
This is just my opinion, and I do a lot of framed handles, not so many “true hidden tangs” but I keep my tangs long as I can. Two thirds is a good ball park to my eye though I am sure I have done 3/4 too. The width and thickness at the junction with the ricasso is also important if not more so than tang length. Stick around the two thirds rule, leave what material you can for your design and you should be good. Just stay away from “rat tail” tangs.
 
I thought about this on my recent build which has a ricasso less than 1/8" thick. I wondered if a rule of thumb might be the ratio of length to size of a standard drill bit (depth : width/thickness). That was the way I made it, a hole in the handle only as deep as my drill bit.

What do you all think? It would seem to coincide well with what's been said - depends on what the knife was made for?
 
soundmind said:
I thought about this on my recent build which has a ricasso less than 1/8" thick. I wondered if a rule of thumb might be the ratio of length to size of a standard drill bit (depth : width/thickness). That was the way I made it, a hole in the handle only as deep as my drill bit.

What do you all think? It would seem to coincide well with what's been said - depends on what the knife was made for?
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If someone is precision oriented they may like a formula like that. I kind of eyeball it and roll on...
 
Let me be the voice of blasphemy. Here goes: People greatly underestimate the strength of steel, and therefore grossly overestimate how much tang you need.

When’s the last time you broke the blade of a pocketknife while cutting something? When’s the last time you broke the shank of even the skinniest screwdriver? Snapped the tang off a file?

If you want a prybar or an axe, then by all means make one. But if the knife you’re making is for slicing things, the tang does little more than hold the handle on. Your old school slipjoint pocketknife blade is probably hanging on with a .090 pin through it. The blade itself isn’t much thicker than that at the spine.

For about $15 you can test my philosophy. Buy a Mora and go beat the snot out of it. Then take the handle off and look at the tang. You’ll be shocked at how thin it is.

Of course, your mileage may vary but I’ve never unintentionally broken a knife tang or blade in my life.
 
Please don’t be offended by what I’m saying. I mean this in the most positive way possible. But where are all these broken knives that led people to believe they need a railroad spike for a tang? What in the world are people doing with their knives that they are in constant fear of breaking them?
 
John Wilson said:
Please don’t be offended by what I’m saying. I mean this in the most positive way possible. But where are all these broken knives that led people to believe they need a railroad spike for a tang? What in the world are people doing with their knives that they are in constant fear of breaking them?
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Well, I'm gonna be offended because it's the emotion du jour. :)

But I agree completely. I don't build lots of hidden tangs, but I've used plenty, and seen the innards of many factory knives, and they are SKINNY and SHORT. Sure, people break them once in awhile, but that's mostly on account of poor materials and garbage heat treating. I have to ditto Mr. Wilson's sentiments about the Mora. You can try to break it. Wear PPE.

Better time is spent eliminating stress risers in your knife design.
 
From my very limited experience, for me the length of the tang sometimes comes down to how long is my drill bit to get a particular thickness hole. I try to get my the slot in the handle as tight a fit to the tang as I can. I know I can buy longer drill bits, but generally since I am using 1/4 thick steel, my tang ends up being around .185-.200" at the guard/handle interface. This still allows me for most knives to be around the 2/3 mark, especially if I use a spacer in the handle. I also always put a pin in my handle for a mechanical bond.
 
John Wilson said:
Please don’t be offended by what I’m saying. I mean this in the most positive way possible. But where are all these broken knives that led people to believe they need a railroad spike for a tang? What in the world are people doing with their knives that they are in constant fear of breaking them?
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That is just what I wanted to hear! I have seen some tiny ones and wondered how much it made a difference. I have a couple that will be smaller than I thought was needed, but will greatly help the look of the knife. I’m going for it.
 
Well I am not going to comment on the size a tang should be, I have used stag and MOP from old cutlery most was put on with pitch, a lot is over a hundred years old. The steel is from a set, the knife was 10" long, tang 2 3/4" by .190", the handles were 5" long stag, the steel is 8" long tang is 2 3/4" x .190 . The flat ware knife blade is 4 1/2" long, tang is 1 1/4" x .105", all of these handles were still tight. I have reused the handles and never had one come back,some thing to think about. Deane
 

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