Shields and Maker's Marks

[Absinthe]

What do I need to know about shields and maker's marks?
Does one simply pick up shields as they would other materials, or is it important to design one's own?
Is it better to stamp in one's maker's mark, or electro-engrave it?
Is it better to include country or origin into the maker's mark, or have a separate one for the other side?

 

[Doug Lester]

I would no say that it is important to make one's own shields to place on the scales unless you are having it judged and the rules require sole authorship. As far as stamping or electro engraving goes it might depend on metal you are using for the shield. Either should work if you are using steel for the shields but sterling silver of German silver could be a different thing. I don't know what your skill level is but you might not want to overlook using a hand graver.

I have never seen someone engrave the country of origin on their work but it's up to you.

Doug

 

[CDHumiston]

I can't speak to a shield, but I think a Makers Mark should be designed by the individual. It represents you and your work.

As for how to apply it I like to electro etch mine. I tried the stamp route, and I didn't care for it at all.

My Makers Mark is simply my first and middle initial and my last name...

 

[52 Ford]

Is it better to include country or origin into the maker's mark, or have a separate one for the other side?

I'd include the country on it. Maybe the state, too.

Something like,


Made in
Virginia, USA

Or

VA USA

would look nice in my opinion.

It's all personal preference, though.

Orrrr if you're going to electro-etch it anyway, you could do an American flag. That could look nice

Sent from my Champion Forge using Tapatalk

 

[Absinthe]

While I am at it, perhaps I can print the bill of rights on it I am concerned about real estate on slipjoints.

So far, on multi blade things like my Schrade Old Timer Stockman it has SCHRADE USA and the model # only on the main blade.
On my Kershaw (Ken Onion knives) it is just printed on the blade in black or silver depending on the blade color. It has the model and patent.
On my Case Sodbuster Jr, it has the case logo, and USA, then some dots, but has the model on the opposite side.
Sarge does similar in that it says Sarge on one side of the main blade, and the steel makeup (440 stainless) and COO in the other side.
And my Chinese Queen stockman has the Queen logo on all the blades, but COO and steel makeup on the main blade only.

I see shields for sale at relatively cheap prices like $0.20-$0.30 each. My original concern was that certain shield shapes indicated brand or trademark? I assume standard shapes can be templated and cut with a tiny pattern router jig? Something similar to the butterfly jigs people are currently so fond of for their farm tables. But I have never seen so tiny of a pattern bit.

On the other end of things, I have seen cheap shields on knifes that are basically barbed and driven or melted into the scale material, and I believe I have played with some Chinese knives where the shield was just glued on and subsequently fell off. I assume they need to be inset, and somehow pinned/peened as well?

I am concerned that using a punch would affect the blade shape, either introducing a warp or something. Not to mention the cost of having a stamp made. Most of what I have seen is that the tang itself is designed to have enough area to accept a stamp, and hopefully the ones I am currently working on will have such design built in, though I haven't taken any measurements yet. I used to use a stamp to coin all my key blanks (as a locksmith) and the thought of mis-stamping a blank that I had already put hours of work into scares me to death. Also, I think I used Young Brothers to have that one made, do they still hold the monopoly or does someone else make stamps for knifemakers?
When to stamp? Before/After grinding? Before/After HT?

As for electro-engraving, can one simply use a cricut to make a vinyl pattern? Or is there a bigger more expensive more difficult method that I am supposed to consider?

 

[Absinthe]

So far, I have only seen a few basic shapes. ROund, Oval, Rectangular, Shield shaped, Long double shield shaped, and some weird sword/shield shape with twin ears on one end. Then there was something that I can only describe as reminding me of the things people hang from the back bumpers of their pickup trucks. I think they gets tickets for them here in NC Is there any suggestion or implication based on the shape to be aware of? I know my Old Timer says "Old Timer" on it, and I think I had an Uncle Henry that had "Uncle Henry" on it, but what about the other shields, when they are just left blank? Are they intended for people to have their own names engraved on them, or monograms etc?

 

[vlegski]

you might try doing some deep research on this and other forums. I know there was an interesting thread a few years back on shields on another forum you asked this question on.

 

[Absinthe]

you might try doing some deep research on this and other forums. I know there was an interesting thread a few years back on shields on another forum you asked this question on.

Yeah, there and here, and 4 or so groups on FB. It does seem there is a company that sells a bunch of them as well as 1075 templates for them. But then they are no longer $0.20 but closer to $3 each.

And it also seems there are those who don't like shields on jigged knifes, and smooth ones without them. But it seems there is no reason aside from aesthetics.

 

[Edwardshandmadeknives]

Can’t speak for shields, but I can for makers marking. I just have “Edwards” for my mark, and I electro etch it in. I used to stamp my initials, but it warps the blade, and it’s not something you can do on stainless very well. I finish the blade to 1000 grit, then I do 2000 grit, but I don’t worry about a “good” 2000 grit finish. I just do that so I can see if any other scratches are lurking on the blade. Then I etch. After the etch, there usually is some discoloration near the mark. I fit up my handle, then do a hand finish before final assembly. This cleans up the discoloration around the etch. I’m using stencils from TUS Tech. They work good, but I have found that they should be cleaned after each use for best results. I just use running water and a soft toothbrush for that.

 

[52 Ford]

While I am at it, perhaps I can print the bill of rights on it I am concerned about real estate on slipjoints.

Best put the constitution on one side and the bill of rights on the other. Bonus points if you can fit the Declaration of Independence on the scales.

Honestly, I think something like "VA USA" would look cooler than just USA on a knife. I wouldn't bother putting the type of steel on the blade unless it was a bragging point... either indicating that its stainless or some fancy alloy. On bigger blades, you're probably going to have more room. Maybe add a short story or something just to take up the extra space.

 

[Absinthe]

Best put the constitution on one side and the bill of rights on the other. Bonus points if you can fit the Declaration of Independence on the scales.

Honestly, I think something like "VA USA" would look cooler than just USA on a knife. I wouldn't bother putting the type of steel on the blade unless it was a bragging point... either indicating that its stainless or some fancy alloy. On bigger blades, you're probably going to have more room. Maybe add a short story or something just to take up the extra space.

I do like the Imperial's and some of the others that have Utica, NY USA, or Rhode Island or something like that. Perhaps I will aim for "NC, USA" and come up with some aspect of my name, or make a company name or something.

However, now I will need to be cognizant in my blade designs to have deep and wide enough ricasso to contain it. This probably explains why knife makers have such short names like CASE or SCHRADE.

So it also seems that I have only seen stamping on the ricasso (in folders) and electro stuff seems to go in the un-beveled area of the blade, but I suspect that is just my current experience, and soon I will see many of them flip-flopped the other way because I said it

I am now considering making a rotary tool duplicator, or even pantograph because it could have double duty doing inlays for guitar work as well. But I don't see anywhere that there is a modern parsing drill available. I have yet to come upon an actual antique one either. I have only ever seen Roy Underhill use one on his TV Show. On the other hand seems like a good application for the tiny CNC or engraving machines too.

I think my initial shields will be perfect circles that I can inset with a drill bit or reamer. Just a slice of bar stock and a pin. I may move on to squares and rectangles with differing degrees of sharpness to their corners that I can work out on the mill. Perhaps long ovals might even be easier on the mill using larger end mills. Obviously they were good enough for schrade. And obviously not every knife will require or even look right with a shield. I assume with some learning, the rotary table can be the key to make some of these kinds of shapes. My etch-a-sketch skills are very weak, so trying to do curves on the mill will be limited to what I can figure out with jigs an the rotary table.

 

[chrisstaniar]

in regards to makers marks, it is a good idea to use your name and not just a logo. You want people to be able to find you and doing a google search with a picture isn't going to work as well as if you have a name to look for.

 

[Drew Riley]

The vast majority of makers who use shield are using traditional shield patterns. As others have said, they're available from a small number of suppliers. (IIRC, Leading Edge Fabrication still offers them, as well as the parser plates.) There's no set rule per say. Then again, there are a small handful of makers who design and use their own shield pattern to set their knives apart a bit more easily. It's definitely a nice touch.

As for makers marks, I personally prefer an electro etched mark. It's generally cleaner, you can get better detail, and it doesn't inherently add stress to the blade. That said, it's a preference like anything. A lot of the more "traditional" bladesmiths will prefer to stamp vs etch.

Concerning country of origin, I don't personally include it at this time, though if that's important to you, there's nothing wrong with that. If you have a relatively common name, or there's a maker from another country with a similar name, it's definitely not a bad idea to help clarify where you're from. Especially if you want people to be able to find you if your knife gets sold to somebody else down the road.

 

[Smallshop]

I do like the Imperial's and some of the others that have Utica, NY USA, or Rhode Island or something like that. Perhaps I will aim for "NC, USA" and come up with some aspect of my name, or make a company name or something.

However, now I will need to be cognizant in my blade designs to have deep and wide enough ricasso to contain it. This probably explains why knife makers have such short names like CASE or SCHRADE.

So it also seems that I have only seen stamping on the ricasso (in folders) and electro stuff seems to go in the un-beveled area of the blade, but I suspect that is just my current experience, and soon I will see many of them flip-flopped the other way because I said it

I am now considering making a rotary tool duplicator, or even pantograph because it could have double duty doing inlays for guitar work as well. But I don't see anywhere that there is a modern parsing drill available. I have yet to come upon an actual antique one either. I have only ever seen Roy Underhill use one on his TV Show. On the other hand seems like a good application for the tiny CNC or engraving machines too.

I think my initial shields will be perfect circles that I can inset with a drill bit or reamer. Just a slice of bar stock and a pin. I may move on to squares and rectangles with differing degrees of sharpness to their corners that I can work out on the mill. Perhaps long ovals might even be easier on the mill using larger end mills. Obviously they were good enough for schrade. And obviously not every knife will require or even look right with a shield. I assume with some learning, the rotary table can be the key to make some of these kinds of shapes. My etch-a-sketch skills are very weak, so trying to do curves on the mill will be limited to what I can figure out with jigs an the rotary table.

Took me two years of pretty diligent research to discover this...don't even want to think about the cost of experimentation...sigh. (this is the biggest trade secret I own...lol.)

you will need to run these at about 8K rpm in steel. I have used these on heat treated and un-heattreated blades. you will need coolant...preferably flood...but I have also used spray mist. They cost less than $6.00. I have done as many as 70 blades on a single cutter (un-heattreated). Wouldn't recommend that on a small/weak spindle. A small pantograph or cnc should still make it worth your while.

they're slow to do but STILL quicker than electric etch...and the look is wonderful.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

this was done on a Fadal VMC....small knife...small logo...BTW...they work great in a dremel for almost ANYTHING needed by hand
....