questions about steels

SHOKR

SHOKR

Well-Known Member
hey guys

for those who don't know its hell trying to get stuff for knife making here, but i might find a way to get bohler steel imported.

i am mainly seeking steel for hunters, utility, edc, compact etc. mostly range from 15 to 25cm give or take

they have k460 (01), k110 (D2) and k100 (D3), the k100 is actually available here for 8mm, after surface grind will be about 6mm, is that good?

i get few other options for stainless, M390PM (this contains the structure, none english tho http://www.edelstahl-schweiz.ch/french/files/downloads/M_390.pdf) , N540 http://www.bohler-bleche.com/english/files/downloads/N540DE.pdf and N695 http://www.bohler-bleche.com/english/files/downloads/N695DE.pdf

can some one give me bit of info on these, which is good or best for learning and starting up, so on

HT is no problem because it will be by bohler themselves

if you think they have other kinds of steels that would be good please let me know

thanks a lot
 
The D2 and D3 are going to need a regulated oven to heat treat. Both are going to need a two stage heating to austinize the steel. I would say that both would be good candidates for cryo treatment. For tempering the D3 is going to need about 350° C. You might be able to get by with 250° C. with the D2. Both are going to be slow to move under the hammer due to their high carbide content, but I admit that I have forgotten whether you do stock removal or smithing. I would work both in the orange to orange/yellow range so you might have to ask for triple quenching to reduce grain size if you forge. Both are also air quenching and have a secondary hardening node in tempering somewhere around 550° C. You could ask Bohler about this. The higher tempering temperature will allow for the formation of native carbides and increase wear resistance.

The O1 will be easier to heat treat, though it too can use a pre-heat cycle during austinizaion and, of course, it's oil quenching. You can get acceptable performance from the steel without the two stage heating, however, it will just be a little more brittle. I don't think that O1 is complex enough to have a secondary hardening node in the tempering diagram.

Doug
 
that is all so... advanced!!

i do stock removal, and bohler will be heat treating so i THINK these methods are avail
thanks Doug
 
that is all so... advanced!!

i do stock removal, and bohler will be heat treating so i THINK these methods are available at their shop. i am using O1 now, but the amount i have is limited, so wanted to think ahead.

so heat treatment aside its down to their resistive properties?

thanks Doug
 
Your Carbon steel is a bit easier to grind, I prefer stainless and started after a few files with 440C & Ats-34 stainless.

The D-2 is a semi-Stainless with about 4% chromium I beleive? It's tough to grind but makes a excellent knife. I use it still. You can use the 6mm for hunter & utility blades.

Give them a full flat grind so they have enough taper to cut efficiently.

That's the experience that I have with the steels you listed.

Happy grinding!

Laurence
 
bohler/uddeholm makes their version of O1, A2, and S7. of all the steels listed, O1 would be the one to learn with and should also be the cheapest.
scott
 
thanks Laurence

problem with carbon steels (which i use at the mean time) is the rust, this country can be HUMID at times, the bohler guy made teh argument that the D3 has about 11% chrome which lowers the chances for rust, but i remember it had a flaw... dont remember what he said, maybe could break easier?
 
thanks Scott, i am using O1 now actually, still have few billets too, but im looking forward to the upgrade, i made 10 medium and small knives out of 3, still have 8 billets to go
 
Shokr,
I prefer stainless steel myself, I live by the ocean and make mostly culinary knives. if they have a version of/or something close to 440C, you can't go wrong there!

The 11% in the D-3 should work fine. In Knife Lingo, Stainless Steel is implys about 14% chromium or more.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
i dont know much about the 440c, i mean if they have something similar, but i hear the n690 is good, i learned that the m390 is cuckoo expensive!!
 
i think thats true, just the long way of trying teh steel with the right heat treater too, should be nice challenge here :D
 
N690 is closer to VG-10. It has cobalt and vanadium in the alloy, which 440C lacks, plus the molybdenum is higher. N690 also lacks the nickel that 440C has. Google up N690 steel and look for the AKS link for it or go to the AKS (Alpha Knife Supply) site and look for the data sheet there that they got from Bohler. None of my references say what cobalt does for steel. The vanadium and increased molybdenum will make it more wear resistant. Combined with the lack of nickel I would think that N690 would be less tough, and thus more brittle, than 440C. I know that there are commercial makers who use VG-10 and N690 for knives.

Doug
 
Doug Lester said:
N690 is closer to VG-10. It has cobalt and vanadium in the alloy, which 440C lacks, plus the molybdenum is higher. N690 also lacks the nickel that 440C has. Google up N690 steel and look for the AKS link for it or go to the AKS (Alpha Knife Supply) site and look for the data sheet there that they got from Bohler. None of my references say what cobalt does for steel. The vanadium and increased molybdenum will make it more wear resistant. Combined with the lack of nickel I would think that N690 would be less tough, and thus more brittle, than 440C. I know that there are commercial makers who use VG-10 and N690 for knives.

Doug
Click to expand...

thanks a lot Doug, you sure know your steels
this is all so much for me!!

thats the data sheet from bohlers site in case you want to check it too http://www.bohler-bleche.com/english/files/downloads/N690DE.pdf
 
My laymans thought's are that Cobalt is for hardness.
I have used Cobalt drill bits to cut through Hardened Stainless steel. This N690 sounds like a bit more than you need to start.

The VG-10 Steel is very tough to work!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
No I don't know my steels all that well, especially when it comes to stainless. I haven't even read that section in Steel Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist because I don't use stainless steel and don't intend to. Air quenching steels can present problems to the smith. I do know where to look and Google Chrome is a great search engine. I'm am fairly well acquainted with the basics which helps me understand what I'm reading but I'm not metallurgist by any means.

Doug
 
Doug, well you sure fooled me :)

anywqy thanks for the help, i think trial will decide in the end... i have enough O1 for a while and can get leaf springs (altho from experience theyre not that good for stock removal) and maybe willcget few different steelscand see for myself
 
Laurence, i think when i upgrade the pulleys on my grinder i can handle it, or at least try (now i only run max of 2094sfps if i remember correctly)
 
Most Stainless is only a bit harder to grind than a simple carbon steel. Stay with 440C, Ats-34, CM-154 or Equivalents and HT is the same or similar.
I think you said you were going to send them out for HT? If you want to buy a few feet of 440C Etc, From a Supplier here in the USA? You are welcome to send a few blades to me here and I will batch them with mine for Heat Treat at

www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos Just cover cost and shipping.

It averages out to about $10-15 dollars a blade plus shipping.

I do almost all of my work after HT. Grind & Dunk, Grind & Dunk with each two passes No problems at all.

So let me know if I can help you with a few blades?
That's if they are still accepting packages from the Great Satan in Egypt?

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
LOL they do accept packages, but 'weapons' are doody to them even profiles of ones, actually someoen here on teh forum sent me 2 pre HTed profiles, i'll see if they go through, things can be much easier if that works out, yet dont know about costs in general yet

and i THINK HT wont be the main problem, its the supply...

thanks anyway Laurence, will tell you how things go
 
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