Questions about a pull ring knife

C Craft

C Craft

Well-Known Member
What I am speaking of goes, by different names depending on the area on the map it comes from!

This is a Spanish Navaja
s775.jpg


Sorry about large pic but it was like this when I pulled it from the net!

This one is a German okapi.
okapi1b-1.jpg


There are others that are pretty much alike! So here is my questions to anyone that has ever built one!

What would you use to make the spring back! It has to be thin quality steel, that is capable of being annealed and heated to shape and then the steel would have to be hardened to obtain the spring action!!

Next question is the lock indent on the spring back! Is that cut from the spring and folded down or is it something is added from a separate piece of steel riveted to spring back!

This one has the lock punched out of the spring material!!
2106-5965-thickbox.jpg

However I have also seen one that the lock pawl was made from a piece that resembled a U. The spring had been drilled and the two pegs the formed the top of the U had been riveted on the top of the spring. It may have also been soldered as well!!

Unless I am missing something there has to be little clearance when the blade is closed into the blade slot, between the blades edge and the pin that holds the saddle of the spring!!

I have a client that wants one and I am looking at slowing down the learning curve on actually building one! :what!: :biggrin: Anyone got any advice on this subject??? I have been looking for information, on the construction of one, but so far without much results!!
 
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I know that K&G sells thin 1095 strap for forging. I bought some several years ago to use in damascus.
My thought is that the end of the spring is split into three parts. Two are bent 90 degrees down to lock into the tang to hold it. The center section is left long so it can be curled up and back to have the ring inserted. I may be wrong that maybe the center is down and the two outside are curved to hold the ring.
This is my thoughts on the matter.
 
Mike do you know how it was listed? I took a look at K&G but didn't find it listed. Could be I am looking at the wrong thing!

What is the designation for forge-able spring steel, that thin. Are we still talking 5160 or is it designated by another configuration!

This came from a this site: http://www.precisionsteel.com/spring-steel/95-carbon

AISI 1095 carbon spring steel The specs sound like what I am needing~

NINETY-FIVE CARBON, COLD ROLLED ANNEALED STRIP STEEL, also known as AISI 1095 carbon spring steel, is the very finest of commercial quality (standard grade) High Carbon Spring Steel Strip available. It has been manufactured expressly for us to rigid quality standards for the purpose of greatest uniformity. It is of fine grain structure, has been completely spheroidized with Rockwell held to the medium or low side of range. Can be easily formed, blanked or shaped, heat treated, hardened and tempered. Intended for springs or other applications such as mechanical springs, computer parts, saw blades, scrappers, etc.

The minimum order for PSW coil products is $300. :what!: Can't do that for a one off knife!!!
 
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Thanks Wick and thanks Rudy! This one is going to be a horse of a different color for me so to speak!

Does anyone have any advice on the spring concerning the lock and the ring pull, and HTing after fitting!

I kind of let myself get talked into this one, and still feeling my way around!!! :les: Ahhh sure I can build one, ............. open mouth, insert foot!! It might help if I had ever held more one in my hands but this is one knife I don't remember ever handling much!!!! The one I looked at was a Spanish Navaja. However I don't think it was an original! It was a copy someone had buggered up to make it appear aged!

Wick, can you be more specific on the 1095 material you spoke of??? I can't find any listing on Brownell's site for 1095 steel and even spoke with one of their salesman and you would thought I was asking for a space ship!

OK I guess I am showing my ignorance here but, what exactly does this mean, from Admirals site??

Admiral Hot Rolled 1095 Spring SteelAs Rolled or P&O Spheroidized Annealed

What does the highlighted part mean??? I understand what hot rolled means but I am not sure about the highlighted part!:les: OK I answered my own question!
http://www.ofrmetals.com/products-processes/products/carbon-steel/hot-rolled-po-steel/
 
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Brownell's extra wide spring steel. Cold rolled and annealed. Page 404 in my #66 catalog. They also have 1075 stock on page 403.
 
I tried to send you a PM CCraft but says you have exceeded your amount. You needtwo clear space or send me your email address.
 
Wick, I finally put in the search, extra wide spring steel, and finally got to the right thing! The pieces come in two widths so I am thinking to get the saddle where the spring is attached/pinned, it would take the 1" wide stuff.
The 1" wide, comes in 1/32, 1/16, 3/32, and 1/8", thicknesses. What would you recommend. I am not sure the 1/16 is thick enough and not sure the 3/32 may be too thick!

If I remember correctly you have made some of these. Any advice would be appreciated!!
 
I am thinking with that short of a distance from the saddle to the locking tab, 1/16" would be plenty. I made one something like that about 25 years ago, and gave it to my son. I believe my spring was thinner than 1/16". Maybe 1/32". I tempered the spring too hard, and it broke within a year because he carried it in his back pocket and sat down too hard on it one day. He used it as a friction folder for a few years after. I seem to recall that my ring pull was just a loop of the spring forward of the lock up.
 
Wick, thanks every bit of info gives me new insight. Some thing I can use on this one!

Rudy, thanks for the link. The fellow takes really good pictures and after looking at several of the knives he has for sale. I have discovered that the Spanish Navaja may not be of the same design as the Okapi knife! After looking at the link, http://dionisiozapatero.com/folding_knives/thiers_hunting_navaja_3 I see he has a spring similar to a modern lockback! I am not sure that is a true characteristic or just one of his modifications. If it is a true characteristic, then the two are totally different, except for the pull ring release!

The Okapi knife has the external spring and uses the pull ring for release!

The only example I have held in hand was a Spanish Navaja, (think it was a copy) but that was years ago, at a gun and knife show, and I can't actually remember how the spring was!!

I got to do a little more research on the Navaja!!!!

Edit: My research is showing both ways on the Navaja! Some are showing the exposed spring up the back and some are using an internal spring. Some are using a pull ring for release and some are using a short lever/tab as a release. I tend to suspect that the internal spring is more of a modern concept! Going to keep digging into this one a bit!!
 
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I rather like this one...
https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/29026-long-folder-short-navaja/
That particular craftsman makes quite a few primitive folders including a few others with a pull ring.
https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/26583-navaja/

When it comes to material for the spring, the first thing that came to my mind was 15n20, since I have some the right thickness laying around...
I look forward to seeing what you come up with. I've always wanted to make one of these myself.
 
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might also check out mcmaster-carr for some thinner spring steel in various alloys.

If you want an example of one to take apart, I think cold steel sells one for relatively cheap.
 
Got it Mike and when the time frame lets me I will attempt it. My time is definitely not my own but, I ain't complaining!!!

George I have seen that makers work before, he is good! The last one there shows the ratcheting catch common to some of the Spanish Navaja. One thing about a true Spanish Navaja, they seem to be skinny and lengthy! They were considered a fighting knife. So long and skinny lets the air out just right! :what!:
They also commonly have a brass tip and are often ornate!
 
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Cliff if you are on Facebook search Enzo Dieni. He just posted picture of a back spring knife with a tab on blade for spring to slip over.
 
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