Question about knife returns/buybacks

[Justin King]

I had a customer order a knife with a textured and etched finish, carbon steel blade. He has had the knife about 3 weeks now and has contacted me twice saying that spots of rust are appearing on the blade even though it is stored in a dry environment and has not been used. He has asked if I will buy the knife back from him.
My first reaction is to do just that, but the situation is nagging at me. The issue is probably fixable and may not even be due to any fault of mine. We all know carbon steel will rust, why it is doing so in this particular case could be due to any number of circumstances, many of which are beyond my control once he has the knife in his posession.
I am more than willing to try to solve the problem for him, but the fact that he has asked for a return instead of a remedy strikes me as unusual. The knife was apparently acceptable to him when he recieved it. Are rust spots that appear after the sale/delivery a defect that I should be held responsible for?
I don't want to make character judgements about my customers, or approach this from a suspicious point of view, but I can't afford to leave myself vulnerable to every customer with buyer's remorse, or someone who spends their rent money on a toy, and then decides they need it back to pay rent.
What would you do?

 

[James Terrio]

Are rust spots that appear after the sale/delivery a defect that I should be held responsible for?

No. Three weeks is more than enough for a client to decide if he really likes the knife, and certainly enough time for a carbon blade to spot if he didn't keep it oiled or waxed.

I guarantee my work against defects in materials and craftsmanship. It doesn't sound like either of those is the case in this instance. I would offer to clean up the knife for him, even bring it to a higher finish and/or re-etch or blue the steel to improve its corrosion-resistance. I would be extremely hesistant to just refund the purchase, for the same reasons you mentioned.

 

[murphda2]

It's very likely that he just doesn't know how to take care of his knife.

I like to think that I'm fairly well knowledged on how to properly care for knives (as a knifemaker I should, right?). I received a new bowie from a very prominant MS a few months ago after waiting on it for a little over a year. When I opened the package, it was pristine. A week later after storing it in a zippered pouch, I took it out and discovered tiny rust spots all over the blade (this is a fairly valuable piece and I was ticked off). At no time did I assume that it was the maker's fault. I immediately oiled the blade down and stored it for the time being. A week or so later I was visiting with Lin Rhea at a meeting and was showing him the blade I had purchased and we discussed the issue I was having. He told me he has had the same issues in the past.

Lin went on to explain that often times knife owners show off thier knives and in doing so hold the blade in front of them as they speak. As you speak, tiny droplets of saliava are expelled from your mouth and land on the blade. If the blade is not properly wiped and re-oiled prior to storage, it creates and environment very condusive to rust growth (duh!!!!). I felt pretty stupid for having not wiped and oiled the blade prior to storing it.

Moral of the story, the owner most likely showed off the knife and did not properly clean and oil the blade prior to storage. Is this your fault? "No". Should you feel responsible? "No". The client ordered a knife made of carbon steel. With the ownership of a carbon steel blade comes certain implied responsibilities that he obviously failed to maintain.

With all of this being said, I might feel compelled to "clean up the knife" for him out of kindness. I would also provide him with a detailed maintenace description and call it good. I wouldn't buy the knife back because of his obvious ignorance.

Just my $0.02.

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

With all of this being said, I might feel compelled to "clean up the knife" for him out of kindness. I would also provide him with a detailed maintenace description and call it good. I wouldn't buy the knife back because of his obvious ignorance

I have to agree with that!

What I'm hearing out of that is nothing more than "buyer's remorse". I don't mean to be coarse, but that's not a viable reason to ask for a "buy back", or return.

As Custom Knifemakers, we bend over backwards for our customers, very much more than any other industry, my gut tells me that this is a case were the customer is trying to take advantage of you.

 

[Justin King]

Thank you for the responses, guys. At the end of a long week this problem threw me for a bit of a loop. I offered to clean the knife up, hopefully this won't end with an unhappy customer.

 

[DonL]

FWIW, generally speaking, it's not a good idea to store anything that will rust in a case. Especially for long term. I learned this the hard when I was a teenager and stored my 22 in a gun case. A month or so later I took it out only to discover that it had a thin covering of surface rust. Seems that many gun case attract and retain moisture (especially foam ones). I've also had knives stored in leather sheaths to develop spot rust.

Where you live also plays a big part. If you live along the Gulf Coast, you can expect to have problems with rust more so than if you lived in the Desert. That high humidity can put a damper on your party pretty quick!

One more thing, regarding the knife, I'll agree with the others. Clean it up for him and then educate him on how to take care of it. Maybe include a little sheet on knife care with each knife? You might also consider using Ren wax on your blades before sending them out. But at the end of the day, Buyers have to know how to care for their knives! Probably was the first Carbon Steel knife the guy bought!!!

 

[Drew Riley]

I'll echo what has been said, and maybe add a little advice as well.

Rust is just a natural byproduct of steel; Heck, even high quality "stainless" will rust like the dickens if you put it away dirty. In my opinion, this is a great learning experience for the customer, and it should be at his own expense, not yours. That may sould harsh, but that's the way it has to be.

Personally, I currently deal exclusively with 1095 high carbon steel for my blades, and even with a high polish it will rust in a heartbeat if not cleaned and oiled. To offset this inconvenience while I'm working on it, and up to the point that I box it up and ship it to the customer, I will typically give it a good wipe down and light coating of a moisture displacing dry lube or oil.
My current favorites are Ballistol, Strike Hold, or Strong Arm Spray. I'm actually planning on doing some tests (hopefully in the near future) on which commonly available spray lubes inhibit rust the best.

I've coated 1095 blades and other non-stainless steels that have sat around for weeks, if not months without a speck of rust on them.

When the blade hits the mailbox, I let my customer know (and usually well before that also) that it's a high carbon steel and will need to be carefully maintained.

Also, if it's going to be kept in a case, I would recommend some silica/dessicant packs be placed in the case as well to help offset any minor moisture issues that might be present.

 

[Justin King]

Thanks again for your thoughts, guys. I am still waiting for the conclusion to this, but have a better idea of how to handle it next time, if a similar issue comes up again.

 

[PatrickKnives]

I have had pretty good luck with a coating of automotive wax, I put a thin coat on and let it dry well and buff. Seems to keep the rust at bay for a while. If I am using a carbon steel knife I will oil it when finished but I use the wax to ship to the customer

 

[Wayne Coe]

To go along with the comments about oiling and waxing I will offer a blacksmithing tip:

Always heat the object to be oiled or waxed. Ever notice that when you heat a piece of metal with a torch that you see the moisture run away? If you oil or wax cold metal you are sealing the moisture inside the coating of oil or wax (guranteed rust).

Now when I say to heat the metal (blade) I don't mean to take a torch to it. Just put it in an enviornment warm enough to drive the moisture off before oiling or waxing.