Quenchants

Gliden07

Gliden07

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking of moving up to a real quench oil and was all set on #50 (Parks) then a friend of mine said that he like Houghto-Quench K. I couldn't find much online as far as buying it. I did write the company for information so I'll see what happens there. Question is what's the real difference is it better worse etc... I want to get 5 gallons but between the initial cost and shipping, WOW! Any ideas would be GREAT! or I may have to stick to Canola Oil for the time being?
 
Depends on what (steel types) you are quenching. I'm intimately familiar with Parks 50, but not the Quench-K, but after looking it up, it's considered a "fast" quench... 7-9 seconds, and that is also what Parks 50 is. Seems like they are very similar from looking at the spec sheets. These types of quenchants are good for shallow hardening steels..... 1095, W1 & 2, etc.

When you start looking at actual quenchants versus things like canola, mineral oils, etc. the prices can be pretty shocking. For many years...in fact up until after I passed my MS test, the only quenchant I used was Vet grade mineral oil. Since then, I've used Parks 50, AAA, Houghton G, and Brownells Tough Quench. Currently, the only ones I have in the shop are Parks 50, and Vet grade Mineral oil, and those are what I generally stick with. If you research, you will find that mineral oil is a significant portion of the makeup many commercial quenchants. In fact some are as much as 98%, with the remainder being polymers, wetting agents and/or flame retardants. Which is why I grabbed onto the vet grade mineral oil at the beginning of my career, and stuck with it.... because choosing a commercial quenchant made my head spin. :).

Hopefully Kevin will come along and give his input. Personally, I operated off of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and when I first went to Parks 50..... I was "breaking" a lot of things. But as with anything, once you figure it out, and adjust to it's capabilities, things smooth out. I admit that I quench steels in Parks 50 that it's not meant for, but I've experimented enough with it to be successful doing so.
 
Houghton Type "K" is their faster oil, in the 7-11 second (nickel ball test) range. It is roughly similar to Park Metallurgical/Heatbath #50. I personally use #50 but am quite familiar with the Type "K" due to setting up clients that I consult for and having some inside connections at Houghton. Houghton is very easy to deal with but will want to sell you larger quantities. Park/Heatbath are impossible to deal with, literally impossible- they will turn you away if you contact them, so you must get their stuff through suppliers that they will do business with, this makes the oil tougher to get and a bit more expensive due to markups. Although they are supposed to be in the same speed category, the #50 is a bit faster than the type "K", in fact Parks #50 is about the fastest oil I have tested or worked with.

As Ed said, what oil you need depends on the steel you use. For the Parks #50 or type "K" you can use 1ny 10XX series (1075, 1080, 1084, 1095) W-1, W-2 and 15n20.

For alloyed steels you want a medium speed oil (11-14 seconds, nickel ball test) this would be like the Parks AAA, or Houghton Type "G", and they would work for 5160, 52100, O-1, L6, 80CrV2 and others. When determining oil for steels just ask yourself is this a steel that I would ever quench in oil, or ever quench in water. The fast oils were designed to replace water, so just ask yourself if you would quench that O-1 blade in water, and it will give you an idea if you would ever want to put in into Parks #50. On the other hand,1084 has never been officially designated an "oil hardening" steel as it really needs to be quenched must faster. Many people have used slower oils on 10XX, but I have tested a lot of slow oil quenched 10XX and I can assure you it does not fully harden, even though the file may skate.

One note I like to include regarding these oils- if you edge quench, just stick with the canola. Keeping hot steel above the surface of these oils is like quenching into gasoline. Not only is it not safe, you will turn your $125+ investment into oily garbage by flashing it like that.
 
I'm starting to gear up and concentrate on my JS. I need to get my heat treat down to a formula. I plan on simple 10XX steels. As you probably know a single mono steel is required for testing. So i want to concentrate on perfecting the heat treat. Probably going to be 1084 from Aldo?
 
If that is your goal, then choose your one steel and start working with it. Set your methods, tools and materials in place and only change one thing at a time until you get what you are looking for. Once you have worked out how to make a blade that will bend to 90°, then pass your test and refocus on making a different kind of knife for real use, one with high strength and edge holding as your goal. For the latter, a good oil like Parks or Houghton will be the surest way to get there.
 
Gliden07 said:
I want to get 5 gallons but between the initial cost and shipping, WOW!
Click to expand...

I made the mistake of only buying 1 gallon each of parks 50 and AAA. They were high - about $100/gal landed here. I wish I had stuck with one steel, one oil, and bought a large quantity.

I'm stuck now with working with a small quantity of each quenchant and didn't realize I'd also loose some oil to waste: by transferring between containers and what I wiped off of my blades. When I put it all away to use again later I know I had less than a gallon. Next time I think I'd just buy 5 gal.
 
Given the value of making every effort you can to produce the highest quality blades you can, and the amount of value and longevity proper quench oil can add to your shop......5 gallons of park's 50 (or whatever oil you need) is a pretty small investment.

I've paid more for a single piece of handle material than a 5 gallon pail of park's 50 costs. Still using the same oil and it's going strong.
 
Is there a simplified chart that lists various steels and recommends or comments on which quenchant to use?
Something like this
1599230882658.png
 
MTBob said:
Is there a simplified chart that lists various steels and recommends or comments on which quenchant to use?
Something like this
View attachment 74650
Click to expand...
I would be happy to flesh out such a form except there are some items there that are redundant, leaving some wondering "why this and not that". It may be easier to understand if it were broke down into two parts consisting of "quenchants" and "quenchant alternatives"
 
Here is an excerpt from an article I am working on for the ABS. The article will have a full listing of quench oils and steels I have worked with or tested, but I reserve that level of thoroughness for platforms where I can get due credit for the research hours spent in compiling the data. My input is the result of 40 years of hard work in all aspects of bladesmithing and I have found that forums are a good place to quickly have your name stripped from your work on the retelling.

Most oils will come in two categories- fast (7-10 seconds in the nickel ball test), and medium speed (11-14 seconds in the nickel ball test). There may be new numbers generated by other tests, such as the GM Quenchometer, but the nickel ball has been around a long time.

Fast (7-10 seconds): Parks #50 (7-9 seconds), Houghto-Quench “K” (7-9 seconds),

Medium (10-14 Seconds): Parks AAA (9-11 seconds), Houghton Bioquench 700 (10.2 seconds), Houghto-Quench “G” (11.5 Seconds)

I have no set range for Canola oil since it is quench oil alternative and not an actual quenchant, for a range of numbers I would refer you to the work of George Totten who found canola to be a fast quenchant but with unstable and inconsistent properties in its raw form. Totten thus suggested canola as a possible base for a formulated quenchant.

I have no set numbers on “mineral oil” as it is not a quenchant, but rather simply a label applied to any number of oils that are non-organic. The only measurable quality would be viscosity for the given “mineral oil” you are working with.

Water is, of course, the fastest of the quenchants mentioned but actually too fast for most blades shapes and the problems with distortion and cracking are what made oil based quenchants necessary.

Steels requiring a fast quenchant (7-10 seconds): 1070, 1075, 1080, 1084, 1095, W-1, W-2, 26C3, 15n20

Steels requiring medium quenchant (10-14 seconds): 80CrV2, 52100, 5160, O-1, L-6

*There is a range of Citgo oils but the 510 is the fastest and the only one I would bother with for knives.

note- Many numbers are cross referenced from the obsolete ASTM 3520 (Quenchometer) so are approximates or ranges.
 
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Kevin R. Cashen said:
Here is an excerpt from an article I am working on for the ABS. The article will have a full listing of quench oils and steels I have worked with or tested, but I reserve that level of thoroughness for platforms where I can get due credit for the research hours spent in compiling the data. My input is the result of 40 years of hard work in all aspects of bladesmithing and I have found that forums are a good place to quickly have your name stripped from your work on the retelling.

Most oils will come in two categories- fast (7-10 seconds in the nickel ball test), and medium speed (11-14 seconds in the nickel ball test). There may be new numbers generated by other tests, such as the GM Quenchometer, but the nickel ball has been around a long time.

Fast (7-10 seconds): Parks #50 (7-9 seconds), Houghto-Quench “K” (7-9 seconds),

Medium (10-14 Seconds): Parks AAA (9-11 seconds), Houghton Bioquench 700 (10.2 seconds), Houghto-Quench “G” (11.5 Seconds)

I have no set range for Canola oil since it is quench oil alternative and not an actual quenchant, for a range of numbers I would refer you to the work of George Totten who found canola to be a fast quenchant but with unstable and inconsistent properties in its raw form. Totten thus suggested canola as a possible base for a formulated quenchant.

I have no set numbers on “mineral oil” as it is not a quenchant, but rather simply a label applied to any number of oils that are non-organic. The only measurable quality would be viscosity for the given “mineral oil” you are working with.

Water is, of course, the fastest of the quenchants mentioned but actually too fast for most blades shapes and the problems with distortion and cracking are what made oil based quenchants necessary.

Steels requiring a fast quenchant (7-10 seconds): 1070, 1075, 1080, 1084, 1095, W-1, W-2, 26C3, 15n20

Steels requiring medium quenchant (10-14 seconds): 80CrV2, 52100, 5160, O-1, L-6

*There is a range of Citgo oils but the 510 is the fastest and the only one I would bother with for knives.

note- Many numbers are cross referenced from the obsolete ASTM 3520 (Quenchometer) so are approximates or ranges.
Click to expand...

Kevin will this article be available on the ABS Site?
 
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