Oiling/waxing leather sheath

M

Mook

Guest
I have made a couple leather sheaths and plan to make more, but I've never given a lot of thought to any sort of preservative measures.

I use tanned belt leather cutoffs I get from the "belt lady" at the flea market.

I seem to remember reading somewhere about boiling a sheath in an oil/beeswax mixture? That sounds odd and messy to me, but whadda I know?

Is tanned leather protected enough as it is? Is it enough to just rub in some shoe polish? And is there anything special I should do to the inside of the sheath to prevent interaction between the tanning chemicals and the steel of the knife blade?

Thanks for any help!
 
Everyone needs to try soaking a sheath in neets foot oil beeswax mix just to get it out to of their system. It will make a sheath a bit harder and protect the leather for some time. It will also 'leak' oil and wax every time it gets a little too warm.

The process for oil and wax sheaths is mix half and half by volume oil and beeswax. Heat it up enough to mix it all together. Use a double boiler to heat the wax. Bubbling wax exploding out of pot will seriously burn you and it's fairly flammable. Oven and bread loaf pan. Heat it to no more than 145F or you will fry your leather. I've fried a few.
When you get to temp and the goop is all mixed up, dip the sheath in and out. It does NOT need to soak. Heat it with a hot air hair dryer to help it soak into the leather. Wipe off the excess. You can optionally, put your knife in the sheath after you pull it out of the dip and wet mold the sheath to the knife. You will have a lot of wax to wipe off your knife but that is good for it anyway. The better way would have been to wet mold the sheath prior to dipping and letting it dry completely.

There is reason you will not see pro leather sheath makers sell sheaths like that. You probably want to copy what the pro's do. All the real old leather I've seen that is oil soaked rots away with time. Leather dry rots too. Some where in between is where you want to be. I am not a pro but I've copied a few. I use Tandy SuperSheen on sheaths. It protects the leather and gives some shine and modest water shedding. You can use a silicon spray to 'waterproof' a sheath if you like. I don't see a lot of advantage to that. Waterproof holds in moisture just as much as it holds it out. Having a knife soak for days in a wet sheath is not good even for stainless.
I finish all sheaths with a good coat of Classic (compare to Briwax)wax buffed in.
 
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I was taught very many moons ago by my mentor S:)andy Morrissey to use Fiebings Leather Sheen, inside and out on my sheaths, and I still do.My take on wax finishes is that they are a waste of time,and usually get wax on your knife and clothes.
Other finishes I would recommend besides Leather Sheen are Tan-kote and Bag-kote.Dave
 
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Soaking in wax is different than buffing a wax as the final coat. I *highly* recommend the last step of buffing on a hard wax finish. The difference in appearance after a nice coat of buffed on wax is amazing. It will add a very nice deep sheen and give it a very nice feel.
 
Thanks Tracy, I should have rephrased that.I meant the hot wax dips not a rubbed on top finish coat which do a good job.Dave:)
 
I knew what you meant but just cleared it up a little to help the noobs to leather.

Now another thing for the record. Making a decent knife is MUCH easier than making a decent sheath in many ways. If you screw up a knife, you just make it a little smaller. If you screw up a sheath, you have to start over. I have made a lot more sheaths than I have knives.
 
Mook, pay attention to Tracy and Dave (DC). You don't EVER want to SOAK a sheath in anything, particularly oil or wax or oil AND wax. Even dipping it briefly is, in my opinion forbidden. If you do you will get way more on and in than you can ever wipe off. Be warned!

Paul
 
Good info Boss and Dave. Getting ready to start making my own sheaths.
Thanks for sharing.
 
And then there are some that don't find it to be a problem at all and really like the looks of a sheath when you use hot oil/wax. I will agree that it has to be done right or it can be a mess. I use a little more wax than a 50/50 mix and it is hard when cool.

While the mix will burn it is not nearly as flammable as you would think. Neither neat’s-foot oil nor bees wax has a flash point. They make candles out of bees wax so it is not like it is going to explode in flame. I took a tin of the mix and held a torch under it until it started boiling off with lots of smoke. I then tried to light the smoke. Nothing happened. I tried to light the really hot melted mix and it did burn like a candle. When I took the flame from the torch away it burned for a few seconds and then went out. It was still smoking. I use a crock pot and the oil/wax never gets any where near hot enough to smoke much less burn.

I don't worry about ruining the leather by overheating any more than I worry about burning chicken when I bake it. You don't leave the chicken in the oven until it reaches the temperature of the oven, don't leave the leather in the oil until it reaches the temperature of the oil either. I bring the mix up to temperature and dip the sheath in the mix for 4 to 5 seconds. This lets the leather warm up so the mix will penetrate, but is not long enough to fry the leather. I then place the sheath upside down on a grate over the crock pot for a few seconds to drain. I never use a hair dryer or heat gun on leather. In close to a thousand sheaths I have never had a problem with a "cooked" sheath.

As far as rotting goes I haven't seen any information that would back up one finish over another. I do know that my linesman's belt was finished with a wax finish and so was my dad's. I bought mine in 1967 and he bought his in the early 1930's. They were kept in a bin on a truck when not used, so they were meant to take abuse and hold up. He hung his in the barn after he was through with it and about 40 years later it was still in good shape. The companies that make the belts still don't use super sheen to finish them.

I don't know how much of the mix others try to get "soaked" into the leather, but I have never had a problem with it leaking out when it gets warm. And it does get warm in South Georgia.

I use an old crock pot for the mix. It works great and you don't have to worry about over heating the oil. While the oil is hot, it is not hot enough that it will blister or burn you any more than soup would. I don't put my hands in the soup either. When you are done, you just put the lid back on and unplug it.

There are several areas that that are concerns with using the hot oil/wax mix, in my opinion, that have not been addressed. You have to plan ahead to use this finish. It takes time to bring the mix up to temperature in a crock pot and it must be hot enough or you will get a mess. You can't rush it at all. It does take some practice to get right or you will end up with exactly what Bossdog said you will get. A greasy, burnt mess. It does not work well with dyes at all, so I don’t use it on sheaths that need to be dyed. I also don’t use it on exotic skins like alligator. Alligator is dyed and finished as it comes from the tannery and the mix doesn’t work well with it. The last thing is, you will catch some flak from sheath makers about using the mix, although the customers love it. Sandy made a few remarks about it to me, realized I like it because the look I was getting is what I was after and he adopted me anyway. :cool:

While it is some trouble the sheaths last and the looks are worth the effort to me.

I just hope I don't get banned for having a different opinion about the hot oil/wax from the pro’s Paul and Dave and the forum owner Boss Dog.:D I kind of like it around here.
 
No problem at all Harry my friend.Actually in some ways you probably agreed with us that don't use it.Not being good with dyes and exotics,etc.The thing is that you took the time to learn all the tricks needed to do it without issues.I just know how many times I have seen on other forums the numerous questions about why it went wrong.I am just glad to see someone make it work well.
Sandy would probably adopt you, even if you turned to Kydex:eek:

Dave2thumbs
 
Harry, we aren't going to agree on this but glad you spoke up on how it worked for you. I will say again, every one should do a few this way and see how it works for them.
 
I agree with a lot of what y'all said Dave. 2thumbs It is not easy to use and there is a large learning curve. I just think it gets a bum rap sometimes in order to protect the unsuspecting. It is not for every sheath and I don't use it exclusively. If I was a sheath maker and not a knife maker, I probably would not be using it either. I do prefer the looks of the oil/wax mix especially on a black sheath that has been treated with vinegaroon. The finish is so deep looking I swear you could hide stuff in it. They just don't get better looking to me.

I have never recommended that anyone use the mix, especially if they are new to sheath making. But I will explain how I do it if someone ask and I won't hold back any secrets. I always encourage new sheath makers to try it on some of that scrap we all end up with before using it on a sheath. Old sheath makers should know enough to try a new finish on scrap first.;)

Sandy might draw the line with Kydex, and I would not blame him. I would probably back off that one if he pushed it.
 
Good information Harry. Thanks

I'm curious as to whether or not you completely submerge the sheath, allowing the wax mix to flow inside, or are you careful in preventing anything other than the outside to be coated ? Maybe stuffing the sheath with paper towel first ?

OK Harry, what the heck is vinegaroon huh1
I googled it and all that came up was a GIANT spider/scorpion looking arachnid 2guns


;)
 
Tracy it is one of those things that takes some work if you want it to be right and it can be frustrating. A lot of people like the look it gives a sheath and I'm just one of them I guess. :D By the way thanks for the great forum! It is like a breath of fresh air!

David I dunk the whole thing. When you time it right and have the mix hot enough the warm sheath soaks up just the right amount of the mix and you end up with very little excess mix on the sheath or in it. The inside of a sheath needs to be finished also no matter what kind of finish you are using.

Vinegaroon (spelling?) is made by soaking steel wool in vinegar. I take steel wool and clean it with acetone to get the oil out. Then put a wad into a jar of vinegar and let it sit for a week or so. Strain the resulting mess through a coffee filter into a clean jar. You then wipe it on the clean leather sheath. It will look kind of bluish and smell like vinegar. Let it dry (breath) for a few days outside.

I have wiped it down with a solution of baking soda to stop the reaction of the vinegaroon, but can't tell any difference. The penetration is great. I don't wipe it inside the sheath any deeper than I can see.

After it is dry I finish it with the hot Oil/wax mix. I use it on knives with carbon steel blades and have had no problems with rust. From tests that others have done there seems to be little change in the leather other than turning black. The good thing to me is it won't rub off and does not stain your hands. It is not a stain but a chemical reaction with the vinegar and iron.

It does take time to do, but to me there is no black stain that can match the look you get with it and it works great with the oil/wax mix.
 
Harry,

This is great info that your providing for everyones benefit. I probably wont be trying the wax/oil dip anytime soon but surely appreciate having all the info possible from both sides of the coin to make a proper decision. Having a different opinion is great and it's a great service too all that your threw your hat in the ring on this subject.

And thanks for the term "Vinegaroon" , I've made some and used on curly maple but didn't know the correct name. Vinegaroon sounds alot better than "Stink Juice" which I dubbed it LOL,

Thanks alot, Josh
 
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