Newbie mistake: Why using unknown steels is bad.

M

malignity

Well-Known Member
Before I joined knifedogs, I had already made a few knives out of random scrap yard steel, primarily sawblades. The ones from that turned out pretty well, but my very first one was from rolled flat stock, unknown metal. This was my first knife, a camp knife with 10" blade and a 1/4" spine, used to chop wood with out in the bush. I had my buddy oil quench and temper it.

I went out camping over the weekend, tarp, sleeping mat, sleeping bag, and some bushcraft, and after building my lean to out of poplar saplings (cut with my knife) i came across some ironwood that I wanted to take home with me for knife handles, provided I could get it to stabilize.

Since my edge was still sharp after cutting a good 30 saplings down, I decided to go after the ironwood.

Needless to say, ironwood won. Folded my edge over in 2 spots.

Since I've got a lot of ironwood on my property (I had no idea until I started looking for it) I'll be testing all of my choppers against it before completion.

Sad to see such a beautiful blade go to waste. I've told myself I'll never replicate the same blade twice for anybody, but this one is an exception. This was my blade, and I loved that thing. I'll be remaking it out of 01 I think next time, and not random steel.
 
Sounds like it just didn't have enough carbon in it to harden into a decent blade. There are structural steels out there that will do that. I would suggest that you take a look at 1080 or 1084 or even 80CrV2 if you want to try to heat treat yourself. The O1 is an AISI code steel and they can vary a bit, or more than a bit, in carbon content. Most of it is going to be up around 0.90% carbon which will put you in the range where you have to be careful how much carbon that you put into solution into the austenite. So that means having a regulated oven (not the kitchen oven-except for tempering) for heat treating. The slightly lower carbon steels that I mentioned don't have that problem because you can put all the carbon into solution and still not get into trouble with retained austenite.

Doug
 
some times it's just how you learn.

Glad you are on the right track now..
t
 
Doug, I'm going to be making a freon forge and using my kitchen oven to temper. O1 isn't a good metal for this it sounds like?

Sorry, just getting clarification. I'm not sure what austenite is. My guess its the carbon molecules.

I want a blade i can chop wood with easily.. Almost thinking of using 5160 spring steel, but I'm new at forging also, so I'm not sure what I should stick with. Maybe just 1095?
 
Thanks for posting those videos, I have seen the other links but forget about youtube when it comes to metallurgy. Now I just need 40 or 50 hours...

OP I would start with Kevin Cashen's page as he knows his stuff and its a good short primer. As for steel if you plan on heat treating in a forge I would start with 1075 or 1084.

-Clint
 
I'll be doing all of my tempering in my home oven I think unless there's reason for me specifically not to. Was planning on just using the forge for quenching and forging.
 
My feeling is that if you are dealing with the really high carbon or high alloy steels you would do best by having a regulated high temperature oven to heat treat with. A kitchen oven should do fine for tempering in as you won't be goimh over 450° to do that job and, for the most part, not even that hot.

As stated above, austenite is a phase of the iron matrix in the steel that occurs in the neighborhood of 1450° (sorry can't find exact temperature). In that phase, also known as a face centered cube or fcc, it is able to dissolve more carbon into the matrix. That carbon being trapped in the matrix when rapidly cooled is what makes the steel hard. Tempering is then done to allow some of that carbon to escape the matrix so that it's not so brittle that it will break.

Doug
 
I'll probably be working with 1080 and 5160 mostly (provided I can temper them in my home oven) until I can justify getting a more elaborate setup. Maybe I'll be able to temper in my forge, we'll see.

I'll be making a freon forge similar to the one George Brackett recommended to me. Very nice guy, was very helpful over the phone. My birthday is coming, and I know the wife ordered me a burner. :happy:
 
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