New Files advice

izafireman

izafireman

Well-Known Member
I am looking to update my files for the purpose of making guards on hidden tang knives.

As I have never made a guard or even made a hidden tang knife I would like some advice on what files to buy please in order I don't waste money on files that wont suit the purpose.

So what would be the best size for doing guards for 3mm steel and what cut please as I am pretty clueless where files are concerned. Or any other tools that might help me, already seen the broach thread so that's on the list for the handle work.

Thanks in advance.

Edit....I just saw the thread posted a few days ago regards needle files....might have my info there.
 
You will want a good set of needle files, but the workhorse of files is the Mill Bastard File. This is the file that will square your blade shoulders as well as do work on your guard face. Then you will want a round file. I like a 1/4" and an 1/8". If you have to start with only one, a chainsaw sharpening file is a good place to start. These come in very handy. I would also suggest shopping around at flea markets and building up a good collection of files. The reason I say this is that for making guards, you will want a couple of files with "safe" sides. You'll grind the file smooth on two sides, then have a duplicate file with the opposing two sides sanded smooth. This will allow you to get into corners and file only one side without risk of filing anywhere that you don't want to.

To shop for files, determine how thick your blades are going to be. Your guard slot of course will be matched to that. Files come in various thicknesses and you need files that are thinner than that so that they can move in the guard slot. For example, if your blade tang is 1/8"... an 1/8" file will not fit into an 1/8" guard slot without making the slot too big. This may also force you to reconsider how thick to make your blades if you plan to build a full guard knife. A thicker blade gives you more options for making the slot and makes life much easier.
 
That's great as I have some of the file you suggest.

But for the others |I need I have found a site selling Kennedy files which is believe are US made ?

Any good...anyone use them?

Thankns
 
I buy NOS American made Nicholson Files off ebay from sellers with good ratings. I also buy like John mentioned files from flee markets and swap meets. I have found expensive swiss made files for a $1 a piece at swap meets. The files I use the most are rectangle, half round, and round files. I have those files in bastard, 2nd cut, and smooth cut. Its pretty crazy the amount of money it cost to have a good set of files. I have probably $300-$400 worth of files and still wish I had more
 
About John's last paragraph - I made a couple tangs slightly over 1/8 ' and it was a pain. I used a needle file knife to help open the holes up a little more. I ended up using it a lot so I bought a few more because I was wearing them out. They were around 2.00 a piece from Jantz. I'm new at this - just saying what made my life a little easier. I like that little file knife.
 
John makes excellent points that many don't think about/realize.

Sometimes, the availability, or the individual's ability to make the necessary tools dictates how you make your blades. For instance, in this case, we're talking about hidden tangs and the guard slots for them...... sometimes it's difficult to find thin files for filing the slots....and if you don't have a surface grinder it's pretty difficult to make them. In that case, you need to re-think how you build your blades. That being to think about building your blades a bit thicker then you might otherwise....so it's easier to facilitate guard fits. So in other words....build your blades in such a manner as to "match" the tooling you use/have available.

I also believe that far too many knifemakers are balled up/hung up in the thought pattern that a ricasso must be dead nuts flat. Frankly, that's just not true, and your life as a knifemaker will be MUCH easier, and your knives will be far more balanced/usable, if you install distal tapers...... that meaning that the thickest part of your blade is the middle of the ricasso (approx), and the blade tapers thinner in both directions from there. Doing that, particularly to a hidden tang, and then creating a guard slot that is just the reverse (narrow at front and wider at back) makes is pretty easy to create a gap free fit.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
I also believe that far too many knifemakers are balled up/hung up in the thought pattern that a ricasso must be dead nuts flat. Frankly, that's just not true, and your life as a knifemaker will be MUCH easier, and your knives will be far more balanced/usable, if you install distal tapers...... that meaning that the thickest part of your blade is the middle of the ricasso (approx), and the blade tapers thinner in both directions from there. Doing that, particularly to a hidden tang, and then creating a guard slot that is just the reverse (narrow at front and wider at back) makes is pretty easy to create a gap free fit.
Click to expand...

This is very interesting, Ed. Are you making the distal taper point from where the tang meets the ricasso (that makes perfect sense to me), because the way I'm reading this is that you actually make the transition forward of the guard and the ricasso is already tapering down as it approaches the guard face. The more I think about it, that makes a ton of sense. I have been tapering the hidden tang, but I leave a little bit of a flat just below the shoulder on the ricasso because I'm scared to bugger up the ricasso. Then I have to drive the guard on and hope that little flat doesn't bugger up the guard slot enough to make a visible gap when it's seated. If the guard was being driven onto an endless wedge, there would never be a gap because the blade is "growing out" of the guard slot.

That is freaking genius!
 
You're interpretation is right! There is a high point in the middle of my ricassos, tapering both forward, and rearward from there. That way, when fitting the guard on a hidden tang, it has no choice but to get tighter and tighter, the further it's "driven" on. Prior to the final guard fit, my blades are completely finished.... and that "high spot" in the middle of the ricasso is hand sanded....and the only way a person could know it's not "flat"....is with a micrometer. :) There was a time that I did it as you explained...but the front of the guard would always "fall off" the front of the tang taper and create an unsightly gap....that I'd have to fumble with and figure out how to fix. No such problem with the "high spot" in the middle of the ricasso. ;)

Here's another tidbit..... when using this method, the guard material plays a role in how easy or difficult the guard fit up will be. The more the guard material will deform to match every little contour of the tang.....the easier. Ever wonder why my favorite guard material is Nickel Silver? Likewise, the less the guard material deforms, the more work it is to get a gap free fit.....as in mild steel, stainless, or damascus guard materials.
 
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