Need a Folder Makers advice on fitting Pivots

[Hankins]

Final Fitting of Pivot...
Goal is to make a butter smooth Professional custom

Constructing some Bali's but the same is true for regular folders that use a Pivot with a screw. They are sandwich style.
Need to adjust the length of the Pivot barrel and get it flat.
Using Alpha Knife supply press fit pivots thru the handle liner.
Plan is to use the same sized steel as the blade for a Lapping thickness guide.
Press the pivot thru the handle liner. put two washers on then stick it thru the Lapping guide steel to get the proper height.

My question is: Do I make it a snug fit and adjust the tension with the screw (6-64 thread) and just use LocTite?
or
Try to get tension by hand lapping the blade thickness?
Have a surface grinder so that is not and issue.
Really could use some expert advice at this point :les:

 

[Fellhoelter]

make it a snug fit and adjust the tension with the screw (6-64 thread) and just use LocTite?

That one...

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

I use bushings in all of my folders (either bronze or 416), carefully making the thickness of the bushing approx. .0005 to .001 thicker than the blade, then I "clamp" the pivot screw down tight. This forces the blade to rotate on the OD of the bushing, which produces less wear over a longer time. I also think that in order to achieve a "buttery smooth" action, a maker must consider the type of washer material used, and their thickness. (I personally use bronze washers in .010 thickness, and gently "lap" the washer faces)

Ultimately, getting a super smooth action on a folder also requires that every part be "dead on" as far as thickness, straightness, and finishes are concerned.

Concerned pivots, I use barrel pivots, that are ground to a length equal to the width of that liners with the back spacer installed. I used pressed in pivots for a while and found that I had a much more difficult time getting them right, simply because there are so many minor things that can go wrong....and it can be very frustrating and time consuming finding and fixing all those minor things.

 

[Fellhoelter]

I did the same for my first 60 or so folders.

Since I switched to buying Chucks pivots, I quit with the bushing.

For me, it is much faster, and easier to lap the hole to the pivot and be done with it. It also seems to stay buttery smooth for longer.

I think perhaps because there is less bearing surface, there is less friction later on as gunk migrates in, and lube migrates out.

It also seems to be a little more forgiving as far as having to be dead on. With a bushing, everything had to be dead nuts on thickness, parallelism, etc... Tenths made a difference.

This is much less pronounced without the bushing.

 

[Les Voorhies]

That one...

That one for the folders, i used to use teflon washers because they seemed smoother to me but others say nylatron is smoother, nylatron is for sure tougher than teflon and will experience less smashing (loss of thickness) over time.

For the balis: before I started using IKBS I used a bronze bushing with a bronze washer that went over the outside of the bushing, then lap one end of the bushing until you eliminate as much handle play as possible and the handles still move freely. I have to say that I was never satisfied with this method, some of the very experienced bali makers could do it well but with most, the handles would still scratch the blade. One other thing that you could try is a thick (.020") teflon washer and shorten the bushing enough that the liners snug up the washers and then just back off a hair on the tension, I never got around to tring it this way so I don't know if it works.

 

[Hankins]

Great advice! Took a few pics today of a Jig that hopefully will work to get the Bushings to size and keep everything squared-up.
Bushings are press fit in place, then a washer added. Surface grind both flat and Repeat. Re-Lap the washers for clearance.

Of course I have no 1/4" ID washers on hand that are worth using.
Took the pic using an oversized washer what was on the bench for illustration purposes.

Hope this is what you guys mean...

 

[Hankins]

"Yea Baby" Thats what I'm talking about :biggrin:
Now if I can only repeat it.... Will know soon!

 

[Hankins]

We are getting there slow but sure!
Got her smooth as butter, perfectly centered blade, no side play and thin washers as well...
Need to get a finish put on but it's getting close.

 

[Fellhoelter]

Lookin good buddy.

 

[Aikenn]

Final Fitting of Pivot...
Goal is to make a butter smooth Professional custom

Constructing some Bali's but the same is true for regular folders that use a Pivot with a screw. They are sandwich style.
Need to adjust the length of the Pivot barrel and get it flat.
Using Alpha Knife supply press fit pivots thru the handle liner.
Plan is to use the same sized steel as the blade for a Lapping thickness guide.
Press the pivot thru the handle liner. put two washers on then stick it thru the Lapping guide steel to get the proper height.

My question is: Do I make it a snug fit and adjust the tension with the screw (6-64 thread) and just use LocTite?
or
Try to get tension by hand lapping the blade thickness?
Have a surface grinder so that is not and issue.
Really could use some expert advice at this point :les:

Great question THIS is exactly where i am at. Please what did you finally do. for me i was using threaded bushing BUT did not press fit in liner. So what was your final length. Blade plus washer plus ???????????

 

[Aikenn]

I did the same for my first 60 or so folders.

Since I switched to buying Chucks pivots, I quit with the bushing.

For me, it is much faster, and easier to lap the hole to the pivot and be done with it. It also seems to stay buttery smooth for longer.

I think perhaps because there is less bearing surface, there is less friction later on as gunk migrates in, and lube migrates out.

It also seems to be a little more forgiving as far as having to be dead on. With a bushing, everything had to be dead nuts on thickness, parallelism, etc... Tenths made a difference.

This is much less pronounced without the bushing.

Hello so this is where i am at. You just use a threaded pivot how long does the pivot extend into the liners or just on one side ?? Would help if someone in sc would open up their shop like the westerner do for each other.

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

Make sure you look at the dates on threads! This one is OLD. It's always best policy to start a new thread instead of trying to restart an old one.