My first forged blade

[superdave]

I got a great deal on a forced air induction forge and a 200 lb anvil, some hardy tools and tongs. I have been keeping a ring off an old split rim for just such an occasion, and on Sunday I hammered out my first blade.
I will start my ruff grind later today, and post more pics as this one progresses. Please feel free to give advise, as I am feeling my way along here. Thanks!

-sd
IKTHOF #222

 

[SHOKR]

Very nice work

Keep us posted

 

[superdave]

here it is after heat treat, temper and clean up grind. I let the drill bit drift on the 304 bolsters as you can see, and had to put it down for a few days and work on other knives, but I will fix it and move forward with the ivory paper micarta scales and the 304 bolsters.

I know it looks like crap from scrap, and thats ok. This is the first step on a long journey for me.

 

[Bruce Bump]

Thats some good hammering to shape. I've never been able to get the edge to drop that far down.

Couple questions for you, I'm not familiar with the split rim steel. Is it a "high carbon" steel? Even a "medium carbon" steel will work for a knife but wont be as good as a "high carbon". Did you run a quench test on it? A "quench test" is when you forge it out into a knife thickness and heat to non-magnetic and quench in water. If the steel is decent enough for a knife it will harden or even crack from the fast water quench. Next bend it in the vice and see if it will snap off or just bend. If it snaps off it is decent carbon enough to make a knife.

Once you forge enough blades and learn from each one you will start to develop a proceedure that works for you. I have more questions, mostly on heat, normalizing and heat treating but lets first determine if this steel is suitable. Myself and other smiths would be more than happy to walk you through this so you dont feel like your are feeling your way in the dark.

 

[Lagrange]

...Myself and other smiths would be more than happy to walk you through this so you dont feel like your are feeling your way in the dark.

That is some high end brotherly help offered there Dave, take advantage of it! We have some of the best smith's in this country on this site. Use 'em up!

 

[Robert Dark]

That is some high end brotherly help offered there Dave, take advantage of it! We have some of the best smith's in this country on this site. Use 'em up!

Oh yes........ If Bruce Bump gives you a few tips here and there.......... Just go ahead and write them down in your little book. There are also some other great guys that are more than willing to help, and they will chime in as appropriate.

Robert

 

[superdave]

Bruce, based on what I know about the split rim, it is a high carbon spring steel. It seems to have finished pretty well, but my ignorance is evident here. I tried to find out the content of the steel but after a couple of hours down the rabbit hole I gave up and went to the shop. I will definitely do a quench test on the next one I hammer out, thank you for that advise. I really do appreciate you taking the time to mentor and educate. I have read this forum so much I feel like I'm back in college. I can't get enough of it.

As to the other questions, I am really working primitively here. I have a forced air induction forge, but no heat treat oven so I cut off a piece of the ring, heated it up in the forge and hammered it out. Letting it cool out, I assumed I was normalizing it(please advise). It seemed to be workable(in an annealed state, please advise) and I was able to grind and shape it as I do on my stock removal blades, and drill it for bolsters and scales. I then put it back in the forge(no idea as to the temp) and heated to non-magnetic and quenched in clear frying oil I got from Sams(probably to light, please advise). This is the same procedure I have been using on my stock removal 1084 blades and 01 blades. The 01 blades are standing up very well(competition throwers) and the 1084 blades are pretty good other than some warping and a break at a reintrant corner(I have learned not to do this anymore). Thanks a ton for your help Bruce, I had almost given up on getting any response here, I figured everyone was laughing so hard they were incapable of typing on their keyboard. The little knife did get pretty hard based on how it reacted to the sanding belts in the final grind and how it flexed while wet sanding and polishing it. I look forward to your response, -Dave

 

[Bruce Bump]

Dave, nobody is laughing believe me, I think we are all just busy and don't take the time to answer everything. There is so much info and rumblings on the web that we,ve become surfers and leave most everything to somebody else that can explain it better. I,m certainly not an expert either, don't let the MS on my title fool you. Nobody knows it all with the possible exception of Kevin Cashen. If You want to (can absorb) heat treating down to the science of it go the our Knifedogs Heat Treating Forum. But we should be able to cover a few minor questions here.

I believe your split rim fits inside the "Mystery Metal" box. It s good steel to play with and get some forging practice in but if you want to sell your knives I feel You need to know what steel you are working with. If you do some tests on this steel you may discover it just fine for a good knife and that many people enjoy using a knife "up-cycled" from something that would otherwise be tossed in the recycle vat.

You should be able to draw it into a bar that can be tested. Simply heat the bar just until its nonmagnetic (1500 f) and quench it in your frying oil or water. Wait about 5 minutes and try to flex it in the bench vice. If its contains enough carbon to hold an edge the bar should snap in two or more pieces. Be careful and wear gloves and eye protection.

Your knife needs to be used to see if you got it right. On the next one try the quench and snap test and if it passes go ahead and use up some energy and fuel on one. Try to keep it from getting too hot when heating. If it ever looks like a sparkler on the Fourth of July it is ruined from over heating. You don't really need a pyrometer to tell what the temp is but be sure the lights are dim and consistent in you forging room. Forging outside is a challenge for the most experienced smiths. The old timers forge inside with fairly dim lights. Heat treating in the dark is nice because you can see steel color and get the best results. I use an Even Heat oven for most everything but this can all be done in the forge.

To normalize, simply reheat after all the forging is finished to non-magnetic or slightly higher and allow it to cool to black in color, do this at least 3 times and leave it in the shut down forge to cool very slowly. This will help it become annealed (soft) enough to cut, file, drill grind etc.

To harden your blade simply heat it to non-magnetic (1500f) and quickly quench it in oil. While it is still barely smoking remove it from the oil and look down it to see if its warped. You can actually straighten it in the vice with slow pressure (not jerky motions) for a minute or 2 but not much longer. In a few minutes it will be "glass hard" and will surely snap in two with this same test. Still smoking is the trick.

To temper the blade you will need moms oven. Just wait till she isn't home or clean all the oil off you blade and put it in for an hour at 395f . I like to do this twice. Depending on the steel you may need a higher or slightly lower temp. Be sure
to test the temper by cutting wood. I like the 2x4" board chop. I should be able to chop through the board twice and still shave arm hair. If this test dulls or rolls the edge simply set the oven to about 375f on the next one. If the edge chips away its too hard still and needs the tempering oven set higher by around 20f.

Knowing what steel you have helps allot because there is far less experimenting with tempering. These numbers I,m tossing you are general for most high carbon steels and work good for me but you may find you'll have to adjust them to fit your shop, tools and equipment. The final line is to test your knives. Go out and cut some wood with it. Be sure to make a knife blade long enough to chop wood. The standard is 10" blade Bowie. You might want to join the ABS if this stuff gets into your blood. The American Bladesmith Society is full of smiths willing to help. It's a disease with no cures