Mill "requirements"

A

Absinthe

Well-Known Member
Okay, if you thought I was a cheap b*d before, now that I have committed almost $6K to a belt grinder and HT oven ... just wait :)

So, I assume it is possible that one would need some kind of mill, be it, micro (Proxxon 70), mini (Little Machine Shop), Bridgeport... who knows what?

If I am focusing primarily on folders (starting with slip-joints, and going as far as I can up the line... )

What tasks truly lend themselves to a mill or heaven forbid a lathe? Are there reasonable alternatives to the process?
Which size/type of mill is minimally "Necessary", or can everything be done reasonably in some other way?

I do have a drill press, and a cheap x-y table for it. However, last I tried, I was not able to tolerate any horizontal pressure on it without the quill spitting out the MT2 like an unexpected piece of broccoli from a 2 year old's mouth. I have considered torching the quill and setting the MT2 in there with a little mallet persuasion, or even buying a cheap second DP and some super-glue.

Other than the discussion about liner relief, or bushing creation, I am not quite sure what the requirement for a mill is. I have not purchased "Slipjoints My Way" because of the review comments that suggests Robinson heavily relies on such things as a vertical mill, and "complete machine shop".

There is nothing like the right tool for the job, and bigger is always better, and more powerful is far better than less powerful, and more tools definitely helps one win the game by dying with the most amount of toys.

All that said, what are people getting away with? In a perfect world, I would want a full sized vertical mill with all the accouterments as well as full sized metal lathe similarly accessorized as well. That is definitely not happening, not only due to money, but also space.

Can I just get away with turning up, my existing DP, and x-y table? Simply replacing the x-y table. Or perhaps there is something I can do involving my wood lathe? Can I get away with one of the tiny (Like Proxxon 70) mills, or do I need at least a mini like the LMS, or HF?

BTW, if your answer is going to be something like "Just spend the money..." or "Gotta spend it to make it..." or something similar, I already know that particular answer.
 
You will hear this from almost everyone: "DP bearings are not made for side loading". If you do use one as indicated besides the already mentioned issue it will not last long. The bearings being the issue.
I have a Grizzly G0704. I drill more holes with it than with my dp's (2). Beside use for folders, I mill handle scales and many other things. Requirements for a mill for me: 1) Variable speed, 2) Power feed, 3) All axis's DRO, 4) ER collets.
ER collets do several things, NO tool bar to loosen to change and they will grip all drill bits.
 
Jesse Latham said:
You will hear this from almost everyone: "DP bearings are not made for side loading". If you do use one as indicated besides the already mentioned issue it will not last long. The bearings being the issue.
I have a Grizzly G0704. I drill more holes with it than with my dp's (2). Beside use for folders, I mill handle scales and many other things. Requirements for a mill for me: 1) Variable speed, 2) Power feed, 3) All axis's DRO, 4) ER collets.
ER collets do several things, NO tool bar to loosen to change and they will grip all drill bits.
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I guess I may have worded it funny, I didn't mean "If I get a mill, what are it's requirements"... I meant that moving forward, advancing in knife making, is a Mill a requirement?

That said, I am taking your list of requirements into advice for what to look for in a mill. And that the "Mill Drill" is your preferred equipment for it as opposed to the little micros.
 
Drill presses are designed to push straight down. If your plans include travel along the piece get a mill. Can you hoke along with a dp fr a few? Sure, but if you plan to make more get the right tool. Why have to unlearn bad habits? As for size. Heavier is better. It’s weight and rigidity. Small mills chatter and break endmills easier if the cut is too heavy.
 
DO NOT TRY TURNING YOUR DRILL PRESS INTO A MILLING MACHINE!

I'm just tryna save you a lot of time. It IS NOT worth it. You're going to sink a lot of time and money into it and end up with a very light duty milling machine.

I wouldn't get a mini-mill. Step up to something a bit bigger. Even if the knives you're making don't necessitate a larger mill, having the extra capacity would be nice for making fixtures and tooling. Plus if you get something like a Bridgeport (not saying you need something THAT big - which in the grand scheme of things isn't a very large milling machine), you can find tooling pretty much anywhere you look.

R8 tooling is very common.

Whatever you get, don't be afraid to shop for used tooling. Check Ebay.

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52 Ford said:
DO NOT TRY TURNING YOUR DRILL PRESS INTO A MILLING MACHINE!

I'm just tryna save you a lot of time. It IS NOT worth it. You're going to sink a lot of time and money into it and end up with a very light duty milling machine.

I wouldn't get a mini-mill. Step up to something a bit bigger. Even if the knives you're making don't necessitate a larger mill, having the extra capacity would be nice for making fixtures and tooling. Plus if you get something like a Bridgeport (not saying you need something THAT big - which in the grand scheme of things isn't a very large milling machine), you can find tooling pretty much anywhere you look.

R8 tooling is very common.

Whatever you get, don't be afraid to shop for used tooling. Check Ebay.

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The big problem with the secondary market is shipping. Especially on something as big as a Bridgeport. There is a guy nearby on CL that has a Shereline mill as well as mini lathe, that he has replaced with a Tag. But he is not responding to my contact.

But I think the Shereline is a mini.

The other problem with the secondary market is that I really don't know the brand's, so if I saw an ad I wouldn't know if it was good or garbage.

All I really know is HF, LMS, Taig, and of course Bridgeport. I have never owned a Grizzly tool of any kind so I am not sure where they rank. All other names are a mystery.
 
I have a Taig mill and an Emco/Maier mini-lathe with a milling head. I bought the Taig thinking I'd be upgrading from the big brother of the Unimat. Sherline, BTW, is a size smaller than the Taig. REALLY small.

I curse myself every time I use my mill. It's a wonderful little machine but you'd not work with it a month and you'll want bigger. Chatter, small cut depth per pass, no quill extension as a drill... I love having this serious little machine, but it's always smaller than I want when I work with it.

I don't know what to recommend, but I'd say a Taiwan mini-mill might be decent for this smaller work but say you want to start with 1/4" 416SS and mill out integral bolsters/liner, it will be slow going. Any bigger work and you'll be going, "Dangit, Bradley, you knew you should have bought a bit bigger."
 
I didn't know Sherline made a mill. I know their lathes are TINY. Good quality, but they're for very small parts. Like clock making. Heck, Clickspring on YouTube has one and he still has to have a bigger lathe to turn parts for clocks.

Anyway, there are hundreds (thousands?) of good names to look at for a milling machine.

I suggest you join Practical Machinist or one of the hobby machinist forums. I like PM because there are a lot of professional machinists on there with a lot of first hand "been there, done that" sort of knowledge.

PM isn't very tolerant of hobbyists, though. Give/take. Lots of good people there. Lots of a-holes, too.

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I have a Taig CNC mill that I have used for the last 17 years. Yes, it is incorrect to side load deep groove ball bearings like the Taig does for the spindle, but I have only changed those bearings three times over the years. Cost is about $20 and few hours time.

I have often thought about a bigger mill. I have to say though that other than people asking me to engrave signs I can get along fine with what I have. Instead I just upgraded to all ball screws and the result is fantastic for what I need

Edit: Not an employee of Taig, just happy with their stuff.
 
Haviland Studios said:
I have a Taig CNC mill that I have used for the last 17 years. Yes, it is incorrect to side load deep groove ball bearings like the Taig does for the spindle, but I have only changed those bearings three times over the years. Cost is about $20 and few hours time.

I have often thought about a bigger mill. I have to say though that other than people asking me to engrave signs I can get along fine with what I have. Instead I just upgraded to all ball screws and the result is fantastic for what I need

Edit: Not an employee of Taig, just happy with their stuff.
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Next time you replace the spindle bearings, I suggest you go with angular contact bearings. https://www.mcmaster.com/angular-contact-bearings/?SrchEntryWebPart_InpBox=angular+contact+bearing

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Haviland Studios said:
I have a Taig CNC mill that I have used for the last 17 years. Yes, it is incorrect to side load deep groove ball bearings like the Taig does for the spindle, but I have only changed those bearings three times over the years. Cost is about $20 and few hours time.

I have often thought about a bigger mill. I have to say though that other than people asking me to engrave signs I can get along fine with what I have. Instead I just upgraded to all ball screws and the result is fantastic for what I need

Edit: Not an employee of Taig, just happy with their stuff.
Click to expand...

That ball screw upgrade really reduce the backlash noticeably? Worth the money, eh? I keep thinking about that.
 
Well, my plan is to first tune up my DP. I will be removing the woodpecker table and then getting the table and at least one vice square to the spindle. I have another project that i put on the back burner, but it requires a 1/4" hole down the center of a 3/8" rod. If I can do that, I will stick with the DP for a while. In addition, I will try to put some 1/4" pins into the file guide I made the other night. If I can squarely drill/ream pins, and center drill a 3/8" rod, then I think the DP will solve all my known needs of milling for the time being.

So far I have no real need of side cutting, nor of end-milling some weird shaped pattern to relieve a liner. I can invest in some punches and make washers if the liner thing becomes an issue. Or if I can center drill a rod, I can make a bushing. Or even a loveless, or whatever that other one is called if I can tap.

These are tasks that should be possible on a DP of some quality properly adjusted and tuned, no?

Surfacing still comes to mind, but there has to be a way to do that with a magnet and one of my myriad sanders.

I need a new dial indicator, and perhaps a wiggler set. But neither of those adds up to $3k :)

Which other tasks require a mill or lathe? What am I missing?
 
52 Ford: I considered angular contact bearings, it would be a good choice. in the end I installed the same bearings as original since they last a long time even being mis-used. Many hundreds of hours at 10k rpm. When they do start to whine a bit there is still no play, and no urgency. Nevertheless your advice is good, and would be the correct thing to do.

As for backlash with ball screws there is as close to none as you can get. The spec is under .001 and it is actually .0005! I have the rapid speed set to twice what it was.

I just did the upgrade, first few cuts are smoooooth
 
A little cleaning and some tuning and I get this...

Okay, so i cleaned and tuned up the drill press. Then I used my crappy Pittsburgh 4" vice, and some random carriage bolts, finger tightened, I dressed off 2" of some kind of chrome steel 3/8" rod with a file, and center drilled it to 1/4". It wasn't perfect, but everything wasn't tightened down either, and there is no V in the vice. Lowest thickness is 042 and highest was 069. I was off by 0.0125. I think I could blame that on any number of things, including not tightening everything down, or the crappy vice.

I think I can drill a relatively straight hole without a milling machine.

What is the next task that requires a mill over a drill press for knife making?


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