Magnacut Question - equalizing soak or not?

Heikki

Heikki

KNIFE MAKER
I'm about to heat treat my first knives in Magnacut and have a question for those of you that have already done so.

I've got the basic protocol for where I plan to start- 2050*F for 20 minutes, 350*F temper 2x2 hours. I'm trying to find out if you do an equalizing soak like you do for AEB-L, like 1550*-1600*F for 10 minutes before ramping up to aus temp. Does this steel require that or not? I'm not having any luck in my searching.
 
Heikki said:
I'm about to heat treat my first knives in Magnacut and have a question for those of you that have already done so.

I've got the basic protocol for where I plan to start- 2050*F for 20 minutes, 350*F temper 2x2 hours. I'm trying to find out if you do an equalizing soak like you do for AEB-L, like 1550*-1600*F for 10 minutes before ramping up to aus temp. Does this steel require that or not? I'm not having any luck in my searching.
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I haven’t done anything like that with the ones I heat treated. I put them in at 2050, 30 minutes, plate quenched, then 350x2. I didn’t see anything that said it needed anything more than that.
 
So I read this thread and did a google search. I copied the following. I have to ask. What is the purpose of pre-heating and equalize?
Should that be for forged work.
Hardening:

Preheat: Heat to 1550-1600°F (845-870°C) Equalize.

Austenitize: 1950-2200°F (1065-1205°C), hold time at temperature as shown in chart. Thick cross-sections and larger pieces may need longer austenitizing time.

Quench: Plate quench, air or positive pressure quench (2 bar minimum) to below 125°F (50°C), or salt or interrupted oil quench to about 1000°F (540°C), then air cool to below 125°F (50°C).
 
Researched a little more and found this from a knowledgeable source. So it appears heating and equalizing are important. So I’m assuming it means preheat and return to room temperature before starting the Austenitizing
IMG_5245.jpeg
 
The only other stainless I have worked with is AEB-L. All the recipes I see for AEB-L have a "pre-heat/equalizing" step. I didn't know if it was required for all alloyed steels and wanted to make sure (Magnacut is not inexpensive).
 
Heikki said:
The only other stainless I have worked with is AEB-L. All the recipes I see for AEB-L have a "pre-heat/equalizing" step. I didn't know if it was required for all alloyed steels and wanted to make sure (Magnacut is not inexpensive).
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I know. I think I paid~$80 for my last bar.
 
Larrin Thomas designed the steel. His recommendations for HT are on his Knife Steel Nerds website.
All one ever wanted to know about Magnacut, and more: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/

IMO - soaks are usually intended for thicker cross sections than knife thicknesses. The repeated statements by folks like both Larrin and Devin Thomas have been to let the furnace hit austenitizing temp and then put the blade in, even for these super alloys. The attendant sag and reheat will get it at the right temp and when the furnace hits temp again, start counting your time.

Some folks who insist on the equalization heat wrap them, soak them, then take them back out and let them cool before placing back in a furnace already at aus temp.
 
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fitzo said:
Larrin Thomas designed the steel. His recommendations for HT are on his Knife Steel Nerds website.
All one ever wanted to know about Magnacut, and more: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/

IMO - soaks are usually intended for thicker cross sections than knife thicknesses. The repeated statements by folks like both Larrin and Devin Thomas have been to let the furnace hit austenitizing temp and then put the blade in, even for these super alloys. The attendant sag and reheat will get it at the right temp and when the furnace hits temp again, start counting your time.

Some folks who insist on the equalization heat wrap them, soak them, then take them back out and let them cool before placing back in a furnace already at aus temp.
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Larrin Thomas heat treating advise is included the HT recommendations on Alpha knife Supply. Most of their stock are what I consider to be knife thickness, for the most part. His recommendation on the HT advise includes heat and equalize. It doesn’t go into knife thickness in those advises.

I’ll not disagreeing with anything said above, just pointing out my observations. I defer to the experts, which I am certainly not.
 
opaul said:
Larrin Thomas heat treating advise is included the HT recommendations on Alpha knife Supply. Most of their stock are what I consider to be knife thickness, for the most part. His recommendation on the HT advise includes heat and equalize. It doesn’t go into knife thickness in those advises.

I’ll not disagreeing with anything said above, just pointing out my observations. I defer to the experts, which I am certainly not.
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Feel free to diasagree if I'm wrong, @opaul! If I'm wrong I want to know right. I will find why I misunderstood, and am glad you corrected me. Thank you. I apologize for posting incorrect info.

I try and stay out of HT threads nowadays, and I should have known better. The understanding I had with older steels seems to break down too often with these high high alloys. Again, sorry folks. Done got old.
 
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fitzo said:
Feel free to diasagree if I'm wrong, @opaul! If I'm wrong I want to know right. I will find why I misunderstood, and am glad you corrected me. Thank you. I apologize for posting incorrect info.

I try and stay out of HT threads nowadays, and I should have known better. The understanding I had with older steels seems to break down too often with these high high alloys. Again, sorry folks. Done got old.
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Hey Fitzo!
I’m not disagreeing with you at all. Just expanding the conversation. Which is a good thing. In fact I wish we had more of that here.
I have a lot to learn and it’s threads like this that expand knowledge. Please don’t take my replies any way except as us sitting down and having a beer and discussing our views on heat treatment. I’ll buy the first beer.
I admire your work.
 
opaul said:
Hey Fitzo!
I’m not disagreeing with you at all. Just expanding the conversation. Which is a good thing. In fact I wish we had more of that here.
I have a lot to learn and it’s threads like this that expand knowledge. Please don’t take my replies any way except as us sitting down and having a beer and discussing our views on heat treatment. I’ll buy the first beer.
I admire your work.
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Not a worry, opaul. If I am wrong about that equalization step, I am wrong. And I accept that without rancor. The "right" steps to make the best knife for its intended purpose are the right steps. And if I state otherwise, I hope to heck someone notices. There's more than enough misinformation, disinformation, and downright lies out there already. Thank you, sincerely.
I shall read more, and if I find I can actually contribute and not muddle then I shall actually participate in the conversation.

Edit to add: I emailed the question to Larrin. If he responds, I’ll let us know.
 
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I'm pretty sure in Larrin's articles or videos, he has said the lower preheat and equalizing is not necessary for knife thickness steels.

I run my MagnaCut at 2075 for 20 minutes, plate quench, liquid nitrogen for 30 - 60 minutes, then a 300 temper for 2 hours X 2. I get 62.5 - 63 rockwell.
 
Seems there is difference of opinions- as in all things
www.knifemaker.ca

CPM MagnaCut Stainless Blade Steel - Heat Treatment Recipe

Thermal Treatments Forging: 2100°F (1150°C) Do not forge below 1750°F (950°C). Annealing: Heat to 1650°F (900°C), hold 2 hours, slow cool no faster than 25°F (15°C) per hour to 1100°F (595°C), then furnace cool or cool in still air to room temperature.
www.knifemaker.ca www.knifemaker.ca
 
opaul said:
Seems there is difference of opinions- as in all things
www.knifemaker.ca

CPM MagnaCut Stainless Blade Steel - Heat Treatment Recipe

Thermal Treatments Forging: 2100°F (1150°C) Do not forge below 1750°F (950°C). Annealing: Heat to 1650°F (900°C), hold 2 hours, slow cool no faster than 25°F (15°C) per hour to 1100°F (595°C), then furnace cool or cool in still air to room temperature.
www.knifemaker.ca www.knifemaker.ca
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I note that the "Recommended Heat Treatment" down towards the bottom of all that doesn't include the equalization.
 
I’m stepping out of this thread.
I don’t need to advise or advocate on something that I read.
 
opaul said:
At the top.
Hardening:

Preheat: Heat to 1550-1600°F (845-870°C) Equalize.
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Thanks! I read the whole page, and only noted in my post that they say it both ways, so to speak, different at top and bottom. Not saying anything beyond that. With that dichotomy, the question remains unanswered.
I'll post if I hear from Larrin. Other than that, I'm out, too. Not looking to argue.
 
fitzo said:
Larrin Thomas designed the steel. His recommendations for HT are on his Knife Steel Nerds website.
All one ever wanted to know about Magnacut, and more: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/

IMO - soaks are usually intended for thicker cross sections than knife thicknesses. The repeated statements by folks like both Larrin and Devin Thomas have been to let the furnace hit austenitizing temp and then put the blade in, even for these super alloys. The attendant sag and reheat will get it at the right temp and when the furnace hits temp again, start counting your time.
Click to expand...

I agree with this and it's how I do it. I have had no issues at all heat-treating Magna-Cut with this procedure.

My understanding of Equalize means to let it get up to 1550 and sit for a short time before ramping up to 2050. I do not remove the steel from the oven at 1550 to let it cool at all.

I'm just stating how I have done it with success and nothing more...

I would also like to know exactly what "Equalize" means in this step Preheat: Heat to 1550-1600°F (845-870°C) Equalize.

Caveat: I do stock removal only. No Forging.

I also found this out there. "Equalizing means to let the steel get up to an even and consistent temperature. It's usually not needed for knives because the cross-section is very minor."
 
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I got a response from Larrin. He said, quite simply, that he sees equalization as an optional step for home heat treating of knives, and that Magnacut is no exception.

There you go. Straight from the PhD metallurgist who designed the steel and wrote the engineering book on modern knife steels. No need to take my word for it.
 
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