Let us know if you want a "basics of heat treating" set of posts from Cashen
- Thread starter kevin - the professor
- Start date
Kevin R. Cashen
Super Moderator
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for the effort over the last year. I have no idea if it's even reasonable to mention, but I'll comment.
Understanding marquenching came to mind. I looked back at comments you made at other places and it's a tough topic for me to sort through.
Maybe bainite comments and thoughts on the various strategies to mix bainite and martensite. Tons of comments, but again tough to figure out what's going on with "up quenching" and delayed quenching.
Possibly a general equipment piece. Not plans and construction, but control of speed of temp changes and control of temp changes. Tough one, but I'm not thinking cost and preference squabbles, just thoughts, possibilities, options.
I know the interest would be questionable, but it can to mind. I appreciate polls like the stress relief thread that didn't quite make the tool box, but interesting and helpful in any case.
Have a great New Year, Craig
Thanks for the effort over the last year. I have no idea if it's even reasonable to mention, but I'll comment.
Understanding marquenching came to mind. I looked back at comments you made at other places and it's a tough topic for me to sort through.
Maybe bainite comments and thoughts on the various strategies to mix bainite and martensite. Tons of comments, but again tough to figure out what's going on with "up quenching" and delayed quenching.
Possibly a general equipment piece. Not plans and construction, but control of speed of temp changes and control of temp changes. Tough one, but I'm not thinking cost and preference squabbles, just thoughts, possibilities, options.
I know the interest would be questionable, but it can to mind. I appreciate polls like the stress relief thread that didn't quite make the tool box, but interesting and helpful in any case.
Have a great New Year, Craig
Troop
Well-Known Member
A few ideas:
1. Sphereodizing hypereutectoid steels with just a forge. (In the event you can't put the blade in an oven at 1250 F after quenching into martensite.)
2. Using a "pre-quench" with D2 (A2?) in order to refine grain.
3. Forging stainless. Taboo? Is it O.K. as long as you don't reach austenizing temp? Is it too red short?
1. Sphereodizing hypereutectoid steels with just a forge. (In the event you can't put the blade in an oven at 1250 F after quenching into martensite.)
2. Using a "pre-quench" with D2 (A2?) in order to refine grain.
3. Forging stainless. Taboo? Is it O.K. as long as you don't reach austenizing temp? Is it too red short?
Peter Killgore
Well-Known Member
I have one or two ideas. I haven't exhaustively read all you're written so you may have already covered this. My apologies if that's the case.
1) Poor man's quenching oils and speeds. How fast is ATF compared to, say, canola oil? Are there benefits to mixing different ones at all? For those of us who can't afford/justify buying legitimate quenching oils, what are some fast, medium, and slower quenchants that you can buy at Walmart? : )
2) This is maybe a little basic, but, when it comes to oil quenching steels, which ones work best with fast, medium, or slow quenches? I'm thinking 1075, 1080, 1080+, 1084, 1095, 5160, 9260, the W series, 52100... Those are just the ones that come to mind. Not exhaustive (thought that seems like it could a pretty big undertaking).
There's my two bits (and it's probably not even worth that much).
1) Poor man's quenching oils and speeds. How fast is ATF compared to, say, canola oil? Are there benefits to mixing different ones at all? For those of us who can't afford/justify buying legitimate quenching oils, what are some fast, medium, and slower quenchants that you can buy at Walmart? : )
2) This is maybe a little basic, but, when it comes to oil quenching steels, which ones work best with fast, medium, or slow quenches? I'm thinking 1075, 1080, 1080+, 1084, 1095, 5160, 9260, the W series, 52100... Those are just the ones that come to mind. Not exhaustive (thought that seems like it could a pretty big undertaking).
There's my two bits (and it's probably not even worth that much).
attila
Active Member
Mr Cashen, I think Kelvin the Prof said it quite well. I know there are a LOTS of folks here who are way past the very basic level I am (edit to add "at") "at", but I do think there are a goodly number of us "basic" folks who read the forum.
*HOW TO HEAT TREAT SIMPLE MEDIUM, MED HIGH, AND HIGH CARBON steels
* QUENCHING
Peter said it nicely "1) Poor man's quenching oils and speeds. How fast is ATF compared to, say, canola oil?" etc. and basic steels from 1080, 1095, and maybe 5160.
and my plead - Oh Please, pretty please write up this font of knowledge and share with us.
BTW, your sticky at top of this forum is very good. Thank you for writing it.
Ken H>
*HOW TO HEAT TREAT SIMPLE MEDIUM, MED HIGH, AND HIGH CARBON steels
* QUENCHING
Peter said it nicely "1) Poor man's quenching oils and speeds. How fast is ATF compared to, say, canola oil?" etc. and basic steels from 1080, 1095, and maybe 5160.
and my plead - Oh Please, pretty please write up this font of knowledge and share with us.
BTW, your sticky at top of this forum is very good. Thank you for writing it.
Ken H>
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scott.livesey
Dealer - Purveyor
kevin, these would be in addition to the excellent stickey at the head of this section.
cryo tempering: how and why and with what steels
poorman's rockwell tests
OTC quench oil
SAFETY AND HEALTH CONCERNS
scott
cryo tempering: how and why and with what steels
poorman's rockwell tests
OTC quench oil
SAFETY AND HEALTH CONCERNS
scott
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Michael Kemp
Well-Known Member
If Kevin could address this I'd love it:
For those of us without digitally controlled kilns - or who are heat treating with our forge - are there any ways to tell when the steel is:
* hot enough for full normalizing
* cool enough that a "thermal cycling" for grain reduction has been achieved
* hot enough for annealing
* too hot - in the grain growth danger zone
(assuming any low-tech indicators exist)
I've been using when the steel goes non-magnetic as my marker for annealing - and "a little hotter" for normalizing - but I'm questioning whether this applies to all common knife maker steels. I use "a little hotter - but not too much" to differentiate full normalization temp from the grain growth danger zone - but it would be comforting if there are other signs one could observe. Even knowing that there are NOT any outward signs would be useful information!
For those of us without digitally controlled kilns - or who are heat treating with our forge - are there any ways to tell when the steel is:
* hot enough for full normalizing
* cool enough that a "thermal cycling" for grain reduction has been achieved
* hot enough for annealing
* too hot - in the grain growth danger zone
(assuming any low-tech indicators exist)
I've been using when the steel goes non-magnetic as my marker for annealing - and "a little hotter" for normalizing - but I'm questioning whether this applies to all common knife maker steels. I use "a little hotter - but not too much" to differentiate full normalization temp from the grain growth danger zone - but it would be comforting if there are other signs one could observe. Even knowing that there are NOT any outward signs would be useful information!
Shane Wink
Well-Known Member
+1 No BS heat treating , plain and simple for those with an oven and industrial quenchants
01, 52100 in particular