Knives cutting through leather sheaths

T

turtlepwr281

Member
Hello all!

Quick questions for you all: How common is it for knives to cut through leather sheaths? I've had two non-knife-inclined friends resheath one of my knives and push the knife right through the side of the leather (time to make sheath #3 for this knife). I'm using 8/9 ounce leather from Tandy. I'm worried this is a defect in the sheath design (standard foldover style with sewn welt)

I can post pictures tonight.

I personally haven't had problems but I'm careful when re-sheathing knives. I'm hoping this is simply user error, if it's not, I'm not sure how to rectify it.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Thanks.
 
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I've seen this happen several times. Custom knives are way sharper than most people are used to.
It's not the fault of the leather and pouch style sheaths with welt are probably the most commonly found design.

You can harden the leather by getting it wet, ( stick it in a bucket of cool water and let it bubble a bit) and then putting it in a food dehydrator at 140-145F. No higher. This will turn the natural proteins in the leather into hide glue. Once dry you will find the leather quite a bit harder.

some caveats:
1. If you go higher than 145F, the leather will start to shrivel up and look like elephant skin. Several years ago a guy on Bladeforums managed to heat shrink a sheath in his oven and the guys all had some fun talking about his elephant skin folder. The descriptions got pretty creative.
2. If you get the sheath too wet, it will sag and bend and look bad when you pull it out of the dehydrator. Moisten it to damp, like you would "case" leather. Not too wet, not too dry.
3. If you leave a knife in the wet sheath and put it in the dehydrator, it will rust, even stainless. Bone fold the knife to fit the sheath and then dry it without the knife.
4. If you use your oven to dry it, you will have to watch it closely. An oven will really mess up a sheath in a hurry due to high temp swings as it cycles on an off at that low of a temperature.
5. practice first. This technique takes a few trial runs to dial it in, just like making a knife.
6. avoid too much oil. Some oil is good. Too much oil leads to rot and makes it all too soft.

Years ago, hardened leather was used as body armor so it can be made harder than what it is normally. This was done by getting it wet, adding some additional hide glue and curing it.
Wild Rose Chuck we need you to weigh in here. (Chuck maybe the leading expert on old and historical leather use in our community. I'll drop him a PM to have a look here. )
 
I've seen this happen several times. Custom knives are way sharper than most people are used to.
It's not the fault of the leather and pouch style sheaths with welt are probably the most commonly found design.

You can harden the leather by getting it wet, ( stick it in a bucket of cool water and let it bubble a bit) and then putting it in a food dehydrator at 140-145F. No higher. This will turn the natural proteins in the leather into hide glue. Once dry you will find the leather quite a bit harder.

some caveats:
1. If you go higher than 145F, the leather will start to shrivel up and look like elephant skin. Several years ago a guy on Bladeforums managed to heat shrink a sheath in his oven and the guys all had some fun talking about his elephant skin folder. The descriptions got pretty creative.
2. If you get the sheath too wet, it will sag and bend and look bad when you pull it out of the dehydrator. Moisten it to damp, like you would "case" leather. Not too wet, not too dry.
3. If you leave a knife in the wet sheath and put it in the dehydrator, it will rust, even stainless. Bone fold the knife to fit the sheath and then dry it without the knife.
4. If you use your oven to dry it, you will have to watch it closely. An oven will really mess up a sheath in a hurry due to high temp swings as it cycles on an off at that low of a temperature.
5. practice first. This technique takes a few trial runs to dial it in, just like making a knife.
6. avoid too much oil. Some oil is good. Too much oil leads to rot and makes it all too soft.

Years ago, hardened leather was used as body armor so it can be made harder than what it is normally. This was done by getting it wet, adding some additional hide glue and curing it.
Wild Rose Chuck we need you to weigh in here. (Chuck may be the leading expert on old and historical leather use in our community. I'll drop him a PM to have a look here. )
What ever Chuck says here that conflicts with my opinion wins. He forgot more than most of us will ever know about leather.
 
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Tracy PM'd me and I'm off to my buddies for a while so will get back to you ASAP.

In the meantime what leather are you using from Tandy?
Can you post pics of the sheaths in question or ones similar?
 
Chuck,

Thanks in advance! I'm using either 7/9 or 8/9 ounce tooling leather (double shoulder) I purchased from a local Tandy. As to specifically what kind of leather, I apologize, I don't know any additional details. I will post pictures of the sheaths once I'm home. Please be advised they are my second and third ever made sheaths, so you're working with someone very green here.
 
One thing I have come to discover with letting people handle my knives is that they almost always put them in the sheath either backwards or altogether wrong and end up either nearly hurting themselves or ruining my sheath work. I now watch very closely.

People not used to knives in general dont really know how to sheath a knife. I know to those of us knife folk it seems like a non issue, but it really is.

I'd put money on that its user error rather than leather weakness. imho
 
Ain't that the truth Dwayne, on all counts.
I just stopped a "non-knife" person from pushing one of my blades all the way into a sheath backwards this week. They don't even look as they're doing it. It's best to hand them the knife without the sheath.


Rudy
 
I don't make leather sheaths for my hunter's. But I do give a little lesson in sheathing & unsheathing my knives to the customer.

I show them along the lines of how a Samurai will re-sheath their sword. Holding the the sheath in my off hand with the spine side down. I angle in about the first inch or so of the blade and then with the spine gently making contact, slide the blade in.

If its on their belt, Have the index finger extended on the spine doing the same motion as above. Its worth giving them some time on a few draws and re-sheathing's. I have never had a sheath come back from the owner sticking the knife through it so far. Knock Knock!
 
Well said Laurence, well said. Your not alone in giving little seminars in sheath working. :) Some are rather put off, some are very thankful.
 
I've noticed wet forming the leather that it dries harder than it was before. Lately I saw a tutorial by a guy who used alcohol instead of water to wetform, so I decided to try it... the leather got considerably harder than expected after it dried, and it took only an hour or so for it to dry completely, as opposed to overnight. I believe that when leather is cased it looses some of its natural oils, thus it dries harder than before... alcohol strips away even more of the oil than water does, so it gets even harder.

Thanks for the tip about the dehydrator Tracy, I may have to try that.
 
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