Knifedog awards

B

Brad Lilly

Moderator and Awards Boss
I thought I should try to get a little discussion going about the awards. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel but I thought it might be useful to see how everyone feels about the awards.
Right now we have these categories
1 NON TACTICAL FIXED BLADE Under 10" (Over all)
2 NON TACTICAL FIXED BLADE 10" and longer (Over all)
3 BEST FORUM EDUCATOR
4 BEST NEW BUILDER
5 TACTICAL FOLDER
6 NON TACTICAL FOLDERS
7 KITCHEN KNIVES
8 TOP DOG
9 NEO TRIBAL / BUSHCRAFT / HAWKS, AXES
10 LEATHERWORKS
11 TACTICAL FIXED BLADE
12 KIT KNIVES AND BLADE BLANKS

The rules are pretty simple but to go over them

1 Anyone can be nominated who is a member here.
2 The knife nominated must be made in the year of the awards.
3 Each member can only be in two categories
4 You can nominate your self

Specific to some sections

New builder should be someone who started in the given year.
Topdog should be the one who really goes the extra mile to make everyone welcome and is someone you feel promotes what you value here

What do you guys think? Should we make changes to our format? If you did not vote in the awards can you tell us why?
 
Brad,
I like things just the way they are but am willing to listen objectively and with an open mind about any changes.
I,like you, am interested in why so few vote.
 
I like the way Boss and Steve have set up the awards. I do think we should be open to discussion to see how everyone feels about the awards. I never promised changes just a chance to express an opinion.
 
I think it is a "fair" process the way it set up now. It would be nice to get more members to vote and take part in that process. Perhaps, a blind drawing for everyone that votes would encourage more members to vote . . . I am just thinking out loud on this one as I have not given it a lot of deep thought. Perhaps others will have a better brainstorm.

I think a couple things could be added for the awards list. I would like to see "best renovation". There are several makers on here that save some nice older or abused knives. Perhaps it could be added to the kit knives/blade blanks category. Another suggestion would be "best picture" Bossdog has been running his picture contests and they seem very popular and helpful. This would take what Boss has done to the next step. Picture taking is an art in itself and KD has some very good artists in this category. Another suggestion would "Best WIP or build along". All of them are helpful but some are just plain outstanding and perhaps should get a little bit of recognition and reward. These are a great deal of work and it would encourage others to attempt one or two.

This is all I have come up with at the present time . . . but I will give it a little more thought and possibly post some more suggestions later.

DeMo
 
I like your ideas DeMo, very good. Being a newbie, I wonder if there should be some kind of a middle ground category. Now, it's either "Best New Builder" or Bruce Bump, John Doyle, Ed, etc. caliber. Seems like one extreme or the other. I don't really see myself selling a knife for $1000 anytime soon. Could there be any kind of "Regular Joe" category? Best part timer? Best amateur? Best knife under $200? Something along those lines. Just a thought.
 
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I,m surprised that we have so many members but so few voices. All kidding aside why don't you guys take a minute and give us your thoughts. We all enjoy everything about this forum, just a few words can make allot of difference here.

I have made knives for 25 years now and have won at least that many awards. This year I didn't win any thing anywhere, which I am actually happy because it tells me one thing, You guys are getting good at making knives!! Us old time veterans are about family and education on the forums and you Guys are running with it. If you are fresh in this its all the more important to ask away. Stop with the too shy stuff. We are all here for you guys. It's just an enjoyable journey to be a better maker, not politics or religious discussions that can usually end in flames. It's about knives. We all love knives.
 
I am with self made those sound good maybe even hard use knife or bushcraft? Best supplier or best scales of the year?
Maybe something that is not maker related but a category that others on forum can get in on it.
 
Brad I am pretty happy with the catagories that are in place now. I like the "best renovation" idea but not sure is mainstream enough- I don't see a lot of renovation posts but know a lot of it is going on- maybe would help stimulate discussion and increase posts in this area though.
The only feedback I could give is that it would be nice to know that the administrator of the awards has the final say on what catagory the knife is in before the voting starts. I was honored to actually win the tactical folder catagory and also posted other makers knives in the non-tactical folder catagory in good faith, so if knew there was administrative catagory oversight (maybe you are doing this already, let us know if are) to be sure knives are properly catagorized, it would be an improvement.
Bruce I fully agree with you comments about participation here and have a ton of respect for you and other pro makers here that take the time to help us less experienced makers. I also really appreciate seeing your pictures and pictures from the other experienced makers that show levels of craftsmanship, ability, creativity, etc for me to strive for and I thank you and other exceptional makers who take the time to do this.
 
It's kind of ironic that this thread has almost 200 views and only 7 responses.

I have some thoughts that I'll add when I have a bit more time. I've got two little boys here hounding me for some daddy time. :D
 
Calvin Robinson said:
Brad,
I like things just the way they are but am willing to listen objectively and with an open mind about any changes.
I,like you, am interested in why so few vote.
Click to expand...

Mostly the same reason that most people don't vote in City, county, State & Federal elections.

Plain lazy and couldn't be bothered because they might have to make a choice and these days you aren't suppose to do that because if one wins, that means another loses, and it might damage their self esteem and Psyche.:sad:

There is a core group of about 10-15% here that vote and the same can go for the country.

To be fair, Sometimes I haven't voted in every category here because that kit knife or Bushcraft category for instance, doesn't do anything for me.

So, All that said. I do think we should have two categories in Culinary, That's the real name for Kitchen knives.

One for Damascus blades and one for single steel carbon & stainless. The first category can over shadow the work horse culinary knives. So I suggest we have two categories there. Thought's anyone?
 
Guilty as Charged

I have to fess up- I've been one of the 85% who haven't taken part.:15:
Why?- It's not because I'm "shy", or afraid to" make a choice"- "lazy"? that one might fit...I guess I didn't see voting as a contribution. and am not sure I'd be an 'educated voter'.
But, with that said, I only found this forum maybe a month ago, and have already benefitted GREATLY from others contributions here.
At my skill level, I don't feel like I have much to offer. I guess if I did fit in somewhere it would be in more of a 'regular Joe' category like SelfMade mentioned. I can only imagine how much time it must take to make this competition happen. But, Scout's honor- I will be purposing to view the entries and cast a vote in the future. I have found here a great bunch of guys willing to share what they know. The least I can do is cast my vote(s).
And, who knows, maybe someday I'll have a knife in the running.
Bill
 
Bill,
Thanks for fessing up. Shy isn't a problem with you, sorry about that. Maybe I mistook shy for humble. I think anybody that frequents a knife forum is interested enough to cast a vote on a knife they like. You qualify.
 
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Hey guys, I guess I fall into the "shy" category if you will call it that, but I'll take what Bruce said a step further. In my daily life I am and have been the guy that always had to have the right answer because of being the supervisor/owner of the company. Of course, that's understandable. But in my brain that translates to "don't ask questions, it's a sign that your weak". Been like that since I got out of high school and started in the workforce of the world! Logic tells me now as I get older that this is actually so wrong that it's making me dumber so to speak by not asking the questions, right. This is why I mostly don't ask to many questions on the forum, I welcome just about every newbie and comment on all the great work. Just thought I'd let you know why I personally don't get to involved, because then I'd need to ask questions and that'd be admitting I don't know something.
Anyway, I'm rambling and you guys have always made me feel good about everything I do, so now I'm getting involved.
I like the look of the categories that Brad outlined and some of the proposed additions look like they belong. As you guys know I'm fairly new to this hobby/trade, so I can only go with what's been laid out before. Laurence's idea of a "damascus category" sound right because some of those knives are just a step above. As does DeMo's "renovation" idea because I feel it's like rehabbing an old rusty car or run down house back from the edge, there's a whole different level of workmanship that goes into it. I hear what Anthony is saying about the "middleman category", that would be tough I feel, but something very worth looking at. For instance, where would I actually belong, I'm not a newbie anymore, but my talents aren't close to even where I think they should be. Who would decide this stuff and is it based solely on time, talent, materials used,???Lastly, I'm not even sure how to vote, did I miss something, if I did, sorry. Help!! LOL!!
As for how I feel about the awards. I think it's a great idea to be recognized by your peers/friends for something like this, maybe there's a different way to promote it. Maybe the reason many don't get involved is there isn't enough "hype" so to speak. Could it be that it just needs to be approached from a different view to get more of us involved? I don't know the answer to that, I build things for a living, I'm just putting it out there for consumption.

Ps. To Mr Ausbrooks, I have some of your 440 in the oven tempering as I'm writing, thanks for the steel. I love Sundays mornings, I wish I could do them everyday!


Wayne
 
Glad you're enjoying that 440 Wayne- I've got a karambit made from same blanks glued up in the garage now, about to head out and finish it up!
 
I am particularly interested in why people don't participate. There are lots of folks that say what a great place this forum is. But it's all the members that make a place great. Lack of participation whether it be in conversation threads or voting threads are what make a forum go into decline. The awards threads got lots of views but relatively few voting participants. And I really don't know why.

It is frustrating that if there was something free offered, even of a small monetary value, just for posting, we would have people creating memberships just to post. They'd be coming out of the woodwork. Because of the world's general constant decline into laziness, selfishness and other issues, we may be wondering about an issue that can't be changed but I would encourage everyone that values the greatness of this forum to participate as much as possible in everything, including the awards.

Now about the awards. I don't really have any particular issues with the categories, either by title or number. The one thing that I will say upfront is that it costs some money to have awards and prizes for these types of things and that has to be respected and appreciated. Remember that to keep adding categories is costing someone money somewhere. I think the categories should (and I think they do) basically echo the standard categories that you would find at most custom knife shows.

The Blade show has a few more categories than most including best collaboration, best handle design and best of the rest. The also have, I believe, a 'best fixed blade' when they already have a best bowie, best fighter, best hunter and best bird and trout. To add a 'best fixed blade' on top of all of that seems redundant to me.

A couple things I'll mention just about my personal preferences:

1. I'm glad for the separation of the non tactical fixed blades into two categories. There are lots of really nice hunting type knives that would never compete with a bowie just because.

2. Personally, I do like the idea of 'best collaboration' because if a knife has some really fine engraving, checkering or inlay that was done by someone else (we saw a couple examples) as a prominent feature, it's hard to compare that to sole authorship in my opinion. I don't mean to slight those makers at all and I love engraving and can't do it myself so I don't feel at all like it's 'taboo'. I just feel like it can potentially skew a 'best of' competition.

3. It would be nice to maybe have some more clarified definitions in some of the categories like 'Tactical' for example and someone to make sure knives are in the most appropriate categories. Even if the definition wasn't 'right' or 'wrong' if at least here on this site it was defined.

4. Most knife shows allow a maker to stand in any 3 categories. I think that would be good here too. I think it would make for tougher competition and competition is never a bad thing as long as it stays friendly or at least civil. Competition is what makes all of us better.

I will comment about the suggestion of having a category between 'best new maker' and then the normal categories. I see some real potential issues with that idea. First, it would be hard to define. What criteria would be used to judge that someone is no longer new but not quite to the 'pro' level. What would constitute the 'pro' level? I'm not sure we could define that at all.

Second, it would require a LOT more categories it would seem. "Best New Builder" takes in any knife type. After you no longer qualify for best new builder you have to place a particular type of knife in the appropriate category. You would have to add middle of the road categories for all the existing categories. It's just not feasible.

Lastly, and I really hope this doesn't offend anyone, but getting tossed out of the 'best new builder' category is the kick out of the nest so to speak. It's what breeds the competition (in a good way) that forces makers to get better if they want to compete. Having a 'middle of the road' category is like the school sports programs that has a trophy for everyone just for competing. I don't think it's helpful and I don't think it's real life. In most things in life, there are winners and there are those that didn't win, not losers. It means that you get up if you get knocked down, put your determination on and come back next time with something even better. It's your chance to push yourself to the next lever rather than staying complacent and comfortable where you are. I've seen several makers here that this past year are really upping their game. That should be inspiration for everyone from new guys to old 'pros'.

Since knives are really the focus, the categories should reflect that I feel. The group here does a good job. I don't know if the categories could be refined a little or not. There would always be someone to feel left out no matter what but basically what we have here is fine.

My personal list might look like this:

Best new maker
Best bowie/fighter/dagger (not enough distinction to separate them IMO)
Best hunter/utility
Best Bird and trout (maybe??)
Best tactical folder
Best non tactical folder
Best collaboration
Best sheath
Best forum educator/top dog (maybe those two could be combined? Or not. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish)
Best of the rest


These are just my personal comments and really mean nothing much at all. The biggest thing I'd like to change is the amount of participation, regardless of the categories. The only way to change the amount of participation is for those that didn't participate to step up as a few have done and tell us why and offer their opinions as well.
 
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WoW, finger pointing right at me, and I agree. For me its greed and laziness. I try to extract as much info in the short time I have and I dont feel I have anything to offer yet. As much as I have learned here JUST reading I should, and will participate in the future. Being a NooB and working 60 plus a week, its tough to wade through all the posts to even find out whats going on here.I myself only make 1 knife what seems like every three months I do jockey the other forums but this one is by far my fav. even when it gets slow.
 
I have to agree with a lot of Johns' thoughts but my main focus, like many here is the participation part. In my case for example, the nomination for 'educator' and the 3 votes first of all raised my eyebrows in surprise and kind of made me smile. The smile represented the disbelief that at least a couple people find value in my participation. Expanding on that theme...I can't believe it's too much to ask to put a look of surprise and a little smile on any nominees' face whether they win or not. Think back on how you feel when someone says "good job, I appreciate what you're doing". It doesn't cost anything to make someone feel good for a few moments.


Obviously this isn't meant towards those who DO participate.



Rudy
 
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